Turkey's Nervous Breakdown
The Downfall of the American-Turkish Alliance
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  • Observe&Report

    Turkey will be half Kurdish within a generation, at which point Turkey will lose its southeastern provinces, and with them much of its geopolitical relevance. Now (or soon) might be a good time to expel Turkey from NATO and back the Kurds’ aspirations for statehood.

    • Andrew Allison

      Interesting about the Kurds — do you have evidence.
      This is a recording: like the EU and the euro, NATO has no mechanism to eject a member, and changing the treaties requires unanimous consent. It never occurred to the geniuses writing these treaties that the need might arise — all they want to do is increase membership (something which is slowly-but-surely destroying them.

      • Observe&Report
        • Psalms13626

          Wow. Now that’s a chart that should scare the beejesus out of Turkey. No wonder they were so against Kurdish independence referendum. Thanks for sharing.

        • Andrew Allison

          Wow! TY.

        • Gina

          Though it should be pointed out, not all the population of the southeast is Kurdish and some Kurds are spread throughout the western cities and Ankara, which are by far the most populous areas. So I’m not convinced the chart demonstrates what you claim it does.

          • Observe&Report

            Sanliurfa (with the highest TFR) is very ethnically mixed, but all the other southeastern provinces listed on the chart are majority Kurdish.

        • Jim__L

          So do you have a breakdown like that for other places — the United States, Europe, etc?

      • Observe&Report

        As for there being no legal procedure for expulsion, I’m sure an alternative amounting to de facto expulsion could be devised (although I have to admit I don’t know what that would entail).

        • D4x

          NATO could adopt a resolution that forces all member-states to acknowledge the Armenian genocide of 1915.
          That’s what Germany’s Bundestag did, and relations soured so much that Germany was able to withdraw from Incirlik. Yes, such a resolution is probably not part of NATO’s mission, but, easier than moving NATO HQ to Erbil, or insisting on transgender showers at all NATO bases…just thinking of what triggers Erdogan the most, so he would want to exit NATO.

          He has tried to invoke the mutual defense clause. The dilemma for NATO, is, as usual: location.

          The dilemma for the Kurds is that they live on the watershed.

      • Tom

        The reason they didn’t include an ejection mechanism was because they wanted to avoid the specter of someone getting kicked out if the alliance if it looked like the Soviets were going to invade them. Expecting them to foresee events that would occur after most of the children of the original writers have died is expecting far too much from mortal men.

        • Andrew Allison

          Nope. “like the EU and the euro, NATO has no mechanism to eject a member, . . .”

          • Tom

            How does that contradict anything I said?

          • Andrew Allison

            In the absence of any evidence for your opinion, and the existence of the same defect in the other two major treaties, it seems more reasonable to assume that my hypothesis is correct.

    • Charles Martel

      Let’s not forget that a break with Turkey would also allow for pressure for a diplomatic resolution to the problem of Turkish occupation of Cyprus to build. It is only Turkey’s privileged status as a NATO member that has protected this blatant violation of international law.

  • FriendlyGoat

    It’s a very bad thing when a major country which once exhibited the possibility of breaking free from religious dominance suddenly falls backward into religion making a mess of the place. This is what has happened in Turkey, with Islamic voters producing Erdogan. Russia, with the dumber side of Christianity, got Putin. America with the dumber side of Christianity, got Trump. These three leaders’ personalities, each selected for all the wrong reasons in elections, are far less than ideal for all three countries. The chances for good America-Turkey relations or good America-Russia relations should be considered unlikely in any near future. In fact, the chances of relationships improving substantially between ANY major countries are declining except among those whose common theme is “buddy up against America.”

  • Jacksonian_Libertarian

    Turkey has gone full “Islamic Tyrant”, they should be kicked out of NATO, and they can’t be trusted with F-35s, they would sell the tech because they’re the enemies of the West.

  • Fat_Man

    I will not rehearse the fullsome arguments I made previously. My bottom line is that Turkey is a worthless country in a worthless and hellish corner of the world. We should eject them from NATO, close down our bases there, and proceed to treat Turkey like the tyrannical pile of dejecta that it is.

  • carl Jung

    or, it’s just muslims being muslims.

  • Jonathan Dembo

    Granted Erdogan and Turkey seem to have gone round the bend since last year. But let’s not act like they’re the only one. Since last year the US has been in the throes of a very similar hysteria in reaction to the candidacy and then election and then government of Donald Trump. The media, the national elites, the Democratic Party, and even segments of the Republican Party have been competing to see who can be more ludicrously insane about Trump. Calls for his impeachment started before he took office. He has been called a traitor. He has been called an abuser of women (at least until many of his accusers were exposed as hiding the crimes of Harvey Weinstein). He has been called a warmonger against Syria and North Korea and other nations. He has been called a Nazi and a fascist and a racist. He has been accused by a former British spy of paying prostitutes to urinate on a bed in Moscow formerly slept in by President Obama. Large segments of the American government, including Congress, the Executive Branch, and the Courts, have been “resisting” him on a continuing basis. He has been called mentally unbalanced by professionally unstable psychiatrists, media personalities, and pundits on all sides. I wish we had only a Gulen organization to worry about.

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