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Greens Make Natural Gas Their Next Target
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  • Andrew Allison

    Not a farce, just another example of the fact that the enviro-fascisti don’t actually care about the environment. If they did, they’ed be encouraging the shift from coal to natural gas.

    • LarryD

      Or be in favor of nuclear energy. Read their writings, their vision of the ideal future is back to the 17th century, before steam power.

      • Andrew Allison

        Theoretically, but in practice, NatGas is much more cost-effective than nuclear (witness the collapse of Westinghouse). Although, I suppose if they really gave a damn about greenhouse gas emissions, they’d be agitating to make nuclear affordable. But you’re right, whether they realize it or not, they’re trying to drive us back to the 17th Century.

        • D4x

          More like 14th century, needing a plague to kill half the population.

        • D4x

          NofrackedgasinMA succeeded in stopping the KinderMorgan pipeline with the threat of litigation. Looks somewhere between 17th and 14th century, with a hidden tractor, without the plague:

          • Andrew Allison

            Another good example. The oil is going to move anyway, and it’s much, much safer to do so through a pipeline than via truck or train.

          • D4x

            Kinder Morgan’s pipeline was for fracked natural gas from PA through NY, into western MA, not oil.
            Romney had closed coal-fired generation in MA, then Vermont shuttered Yankee nuclear. Yet, my former neighbors successfully fought fracked natural gas, because, only solar is acceptable. (Wind turbines would spoil the views.)
            A year ago, Kinder Morgan withdrew the pipeline plan.

          • ——————————

            I wonder exactly what it is that they think they are protecting the “commonwealth” from?….

          • D4x

            They believe fracking contaminates groundwater, that burning any hydrocarbon is no longer an option because CO2 is above 350ppm, and, protecting the idyllic landscape.



          • ——————————

            Thanks for the link…and the guy is 67!
            They even mentioned that 1 Bald Eagle could stop the line. That is crazy. Do they think and Eagle would be offended by it?…I think Eagles are pretty much just concerned with getting their next meal or feeding their young.

            Anyway, it is only a pipeline. The gas will get to where the pipeline is going, pipe or not.
            Was it going to be an underground pipeline? Even if above ground and they pay me for the land and the decreased value of my property, I would just move if I don’t like looking at it.
            Pipelines are all around here in Texas…no one seems to care….

          • D4x

            KinderMorgan’s pipeline was to be above-ground. Perhaps that fracked gas will be used in New York. They banned fracking in NY, but no problem importing fracked gas from PA.

            Greens have long relied on litigation using endangered species habitats to stop all sorts of projects. Not that they would do anything about the outside cats destroying the songbird population.

            Until you try to live there, hard to understand the attachment to the landscape.
            It IS mesmerizing – early 19th century Currier & Ives, with skies by Monet.

          • ——————————

            It’s nice in that part of the country, I was up that way a couple of times in the mid 80’s.
            I lived in Oregon and Cali for a number of years so I understand a people’s attachment to landscape.

            Funny how the greens can look past all the birds, including Eagles, killed by wind power every year….

          • D4x

            President Macri, Argentina, will be at WH 04 27. Wonder if the greens will protest the “Vaca Muerta shale deposit in Patagonia.
            Roughly the size of Belgium, Vaca Muerta has the second-largest reserve of
            shale gas in the world.” FT via wiki. Macri has a lot in common with POTUS. First Lady Juliana Awada reminds me of Melania.
            I apologize for underestimating the significance of this official state visit from Argentina on Thursday April 27, 2017.

          • ——————————

            That’s a lot of hydrocarbons!
            Looks like it’s going to be a bit slow coming out of the ground until they get the infrastructure in place. But i’ll bet they get the extraction costs down once it gets going.

            So much for the ‘peak oil’ theory, huh?….

          • D4x

            Indeed, especially when the place name is Dead Cow, Patagonia. The infrastructure to support human life sounds more challenging than the drilling. Early report from Houston sounds like there is a real plan in progress: “Houston, 26 April (Argus) — Argentina will allow imports of used equipment for oil and gas hydraulic fracturing as part of a plan to boost foreign investment in the Vaca Muerta shale formation. …”

            President Macri was educated as a civil engineer – his political success as mayor of Buenos Aires sounds like he got a lot of infrastructure built. (His wiki entry is fascinating.) Too bad the national news will probably gloss over his visit to the WH tomorrow.

            Today is FLOTUS’ birthday. Melania hosted a lunch for Senate wives (spouses?) at the National Gallery. A few minutes ago, Yahoo Food finally provided some coverage.

          • ——————————

            Hey, thanks for the links you have provided the last few days! It is well appreciated!
            If your not going to be online tomorrow, how am I going to learn anything?…J/K

            It is good to get away from the comp at times. The problem for me is that I do all my online stuff on my phone, and it needs to be with me at all times because of my businesses…so it’s hard to get away from it….

          • D4x

            All good – I had wondered why Macri was coming to the WH, but only ‘researched’ last night. Completely changed my view of Argentina’s significance. Good to share with someone who is interested and interesting.

            Seven inches of rain, Sat thru early Tues, a) requires distraction, and b) requires dealing with it.

            Helps to be visiting places like Dead Cow. Belgium is 11,787 sqmi, smaller than Massachusetts. Argentina is 1.1 million sqmi. I can see path to Argentine stability and prosperity with shale gas!

            Maybe TAI will post on the near-state visit of Macri & Awada. Because, Hail Shale!
            I’ll be back. Too much fun here.

          • D4x

            Seems the shale boom is just getting started, part 1 of 3 today at:

            (In other news, Argentine media thinks Juliana of Argentina won the fashion contest today with FLOTUS, USA media stone cold silent)

          • ——————————

            And the rig efficiency is increasing at 20% per year!
            The even better news is that there are surely more large shale deposits undiscovered yet….

          • D4x

            Sometimes it seems if we drill enough, we’ll find the Earth is a crust full of oil and gas, a filling station for another planet, whose tankers are caught in a traffic jam of comets.
            Because, there are shale deposits already discovered, but no development. Colorado has shale oil that would supply 100% of USA oil use for 100 years. Israel has a shale oil deposit SE of Jerusalem, estimated reserve = Saudi Arabia. Environmentalists stopped the idea of drilling there.
            Yes, am online, and just overdosed on FLOTUS Fashion. No mention of Dead Cows, but some snakes died for her stilettoes. The overdose was in researching her suit designer, Altuzarra, who had no chance to ‘refuse to dress Melania’. FLOTUS made a pre-emptive strike!
            So much news that the Argentina visit got lost.

          • ——————————

            They stopped drilling in Israel, or Colorado?

            Hmmm…I think it was more of a business decision than a diplomatic breakthrough….

          • D4x

            Colorado’s watershed makes drilling/fracking a bad idea. They never considered drilling in CO, but good to know that is a reserve. In Israel, the water geology was ok, but the protests stopped the plan to start drilling. There ARE 10 wells on the Golan, but operations were suspended in 2016, because of the Syrian civil war. The Golan oil would make Israel self-sufficient.

            So much oil…

          • ——————————

            With the constant improvements in extraction I am sure by the time we need the Colorado reserves we will have the technology to safely extract.
            Are they Israeli greens, or greens from other countries who come to protest? And what the hell are they protesting?…ground water?, landscape?, global warming?…

          • D4x

            Here is a fine report 2013 on the whole story, including a bit about Colorado and Jordan, & the technology. Israel does have a lot of ‘greens’, with assist from the USA, who stopped the pilot project after 2013. Eventually, 250 Billion barrels of shale oil will be too tempting.

            “The Holy Land sits on the world’s second-largest deposits of oil shale. Advocates say its extraction will be safe and could transform the economy. Opponents say the environmental fallout could be disastrous”
            By David Horovitz September 8, 2013, 3:06 pm
            “…23 countries worldwide have oil shale. The US is at the head of the list, boasting considerable resources in Colorado. And then come Israel and Jordan….”

            It seems Oil Shale is different from Shale Oil, and certainly not about Shale Gas, which is what Dead Cow, Patagonia has.

            Got to be movie about a pilgrim who goes to Dead Cow because the bar-be-cue is better than the kosher brisket of the Valley of Elah, or something…

          • ——————————

            Wow…30 gallons of oil in only 1 cubic meter of rock. That’s some wet rock.
            Oil shale is the name of the rock that the oil is in, and shale oil is name for the oil that is in the shale rock.

            There is nothing better than Kosher corned brisket on Jewish rye…with a large and juicy dill along side of it….

          • D4x

            Seems we have proven no such thing as peak oil. Time for lunch!

          • D4x

            Here is a fine read, with good maps, on Russia’s Arctic strategy, without fracking, but some logistics challenges, and definitely neither bar-be-que nor deli: “…a plan to deliver foodstuffs from Africa to the Arctic area. I asked how they were delivering the food themselves. The admiral told me that periodically they would take the missiles out of the tubes in the nuclear subs and fill the voids with potatoes. They would use the nuclear subs to deliver these potatoes to the isolated bases on the Arctic coast and the islands. He warned me that if there was a confrontation with a US submarine he would bombard the Americans with fresh potatoes. …”


            04 29 2017 by Dr. Gary K. Busch
            Looks like this post has been retired, but thought you’d like the maps, and potatoes instead of ICBMs.


          • ——————————

            It was a great article! Thanks!
            D4, Your like a human library!

            I didn’t realize there was so much going on up there.
            It seems, as usual…the Russians are attempting to operate way out of their league…again. They never learn from their past. First they need to fix their constitution to make it something more like ours, then learn how to use that new governmental system, and then they can begin to operate their free-enterprise as we do.
            And they also need to pick better allies. If they were savvy they would have allied with us many years ago. I always liken them to teenagers in an adult world….

          • D4x

            The Arctic is the new Suez Canal. We shall see if the USA steps up and turns The Arctic Council into the platform for genuine engagement with Russia. May meeting is in Fairbanks –

          • D4x

            Seems New York has a shortage of natgas pipelines, same ideology as MA: “no hydrocarbons”:

            “…It’s pretty obvious that the governor is ignoring New Yorkers’ interests to appease ideologues — specifically, green extremists who’ve adopted a new strategy: Kill off all new pipeline projects to drive up the price of all fossil fuels — and so make it easier for costly “renewables” to compete.

            “The growing rallying cry of the climate movement, to keep fossil fuels in the ground, is taking hold, and not just in the form of chants and headlines, but in the form of canceled gas pipelines,” the Sierra Club wrote last year.

            “We want an end to New York’s ruinous dependency on fracked gas, along with all of the hateful, harmful infrastructure that comes with it,” said Sandra Steingraber, co-founder of New Yorkers Against Fracking. “An end to fossil fuels is our united goal.” …”


          • ——————————

            More proof how twisted the greens are in their insights.

            NY keeps voting for Cuomo (and I’ll bet they vote for him for a 3rd term), so….

          • VictorErimita

            Right…”hateful” infrastructure. These people are truly deranged.

          • D4x

            Looks like we need just enough comet or asteroid fragments striking Earth, to lower the global thermostat: “Ancient stone carvings confirm that a comet struck the Earth around 11,000BC, a devastating event which wiped out woolly mammoths and sparked the rise of civilisations. …

            Before the strike, vast areas of wild wheat and barley had allowed nomadic hunters in the Middle East to establish permanent base camps. But the difficult climate conditions following the impact forced communities to come together and work out new ways of maintaining the crops, through watering and selective breeding. Thus farming began, allowing the rise of the first towns. …”

            By Sarah Knapton, Science Editor 21 April 2017 • 11:25am

          • ——————————

            Thanks for the link! This is the type of stuff I really enjoy.
            There are also theories that early man had became so efficient at hunting mammoth that they may have been responsible for their extinction.

          • D4x

            Yes, amazing, sophisticated carvings for 14,000 years ago. Stone & Bone tools?

            Poking a hole in the Biblical Creation start date 5777 years ago.

          • ——————————

            I thought fossils and carbon dating, long ago poked a hole in biblical creation time frames….

          • D4x

            Well, yes, but carvings like this are the work of humans, thousands of years before metal tools. The Bible needs a prologue, about aliens.

          • D4x
          • D4x

            Seems something human killed a mastodon in CA about 130,000 years ago, proving the suspicion that California IS different! This just added 100,000 years to that Creation story. Probably also means there are more hydrocarbons to be found in CA, staying on topic.


            (Mastodons different species from Woolly Mammoth)

          • ——————————

            Well that’s pretty cool!
            They need more proof, but if it’s true it would open up the whole NA for a lot more archaeological pursuits.
            Since it was found in Cali it means that the people were liberals…and liberals are vegan, so why would they be hunting?…these questions will also need to be addressed by the scientific community….

            BTW, I do believe Creation can go hand in hand with science.

          • D4x

            I dunno, the Russians colonized Cali first, probably dis-information! As for Creation, I still (sort of) think Aliens injected their DNA into Lucy.

      • The Oatmeal Savage

        200 years ago we didn’t have all these modern conveniences, every child drank unpastuerized milk, they ate only organic food, and none of them were vaccinated.

        Most of them died.

        Well, all of them died of course, but most of them died as children.

    • Mike

      No, it is merely an example of a conspiracy theory invented by a desperate coal exec. It is a non-story, TIA should know better.

      • Andrew Allison

        Or, perhaps, a desperate TAI?

        • Mike

          Desperate? More like sloppy.

      • SDN

        Except that it accurately reflects Green statements in the past.

        • Mike

          I don’t believe it reflects the mainstream views on the other side of the debate. Who cares about the fringes?

  • Unelected Leader

    Greens aka commies aka useful dolts for Riyadh and Moscow (and anyone else with a vested interest in slowing the development of America’s energy sector) can cry and scream as much as they want.
    It’s simply the market at work. Natural gas is cheaper and even cleaner than coal. End of story.
    Now, they can get arrested, catch some felonies on their record, lose an eyeball to an exploding teargas canister, or any number of other things. Outside their echo chamber nobody cares, everybody is interested in cheap, efficient energy and jobs.

    • M Snow

      Greens aka commies aka useful dolts aka most of the Democrats in Congress….

  • Gary Hemminger

    Finally the AI seems to be shifting to realize that the greens are not out to reduce CO2, they are out to get rid of all fossil fuels for use by us (and by us, I mean us, not them). This has been clear for some time to many of us. In addition the whole global warming, climate crusade is a farce. If you think otherwise, I have an apocalypse to sell you.

  • Mike

    “says Robert Murray, chief executive officer of U.S. coal miner Murray Energy Corp”

    Since when he became the spokesperson for the “greens”? Coal industry is dead, cheap tricks and whining won’t save it. It’s the economy, stupid.

    • Andrew Allison

      Actually, the coal industry is, thanks to President Trump and the export market, back from the dead. Industry employment increased by 11,000 last quarter.

      • Mike

        It may be going through remission, but it is terminally ill. There is no cure, it will be dead soon. And as far as I am concerned- good riddance.

  • Anthony

    An observation:

    “Moderation fosters and is fostered by a panoramic view of politics. Combining political engagement with a certain detachment or skepticism, moderation encourages dialogue with fellow citizens across the political spectrum. It disciplines the fervor that blinds us to our own side’s weaknesses and to the truth in the other side’s complaints and demands….To be politically effective, moderation must be embodied in institutions such as representation, separation of powers, and federalism, which are designed to diffuse power, cool deliberations, and promote compromise.” (Peter Berkowitz)

  • Fat_Man

    That is fine. No gas fired power plants, no solar electricity, no windmills.

  • Wayne Lusvardi

    Here is a chart by Schalk Cloete, a South Africa research scientist in Norway, showing the estimated cost and benefit from India cutting its rate of emissions in half:

    Link and chart below:

    As anyone can see there is a huge cost of $7500 per year and benefits in the form of avoided emissions about $130/year.

    Cloete’s conclusion from the data is:

    “It is therefore clear that any reduction in the rate of economic growth of developing nations for the sake of curbing CO2 emissions is not an option. Unsubsidized deployment of clean energy is perfectly fine, but subsidized deployment will inevitably shift economic output from more productive to less productive areas, thereby hampering economic development. Applying pressure on developing nations to subsidize clean energy production for the sake of climate change prevention is therefore simply unethical”.

    And if it is unethical for India why would it be ethical for, say, Wyoming, West Virginia, Kentucky, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Texas or Indiana?

  • Wayne Lusvardi

    Willem Post, an energy engineer, has concluded the self obvious from his extensive analysis of shifting to solar power in New England:

    “The small demand reduction percent due to solar output would have minimal impact on grid capacity design and investments.
    Solar output (and wind output) cannot be counted on to reduce grid design capacity, because in New England:

    During winter, solar output could be near zero, if panels were covered with snow and ice when peak demand occurs.

    Solar output is near zero, or zero, about 75% of the hours of the year.

    Wind output is near zero, or zero, about 40% of the hours of the year.

    Total solar + wind output is near zero during many hours of the year, including peak demand hours, per the real-time, ISO-NE grid status website”.


    • Why do people continue seeking sun power in places where the sun is barely visible most of the year? Germany already tried that and they had to cut back on it since it just was not working. A high school kid could have told them that and yet they spent billions on it. I guess our friends in New England are dumber than high school kids …

  • lagrangia

    Greens may or not be “Friends of the Planet” but are deeply hostile to human beings and their prospects. As such, they have no place in a humane society, and, for the good of the Planet and their fellow humans, should make suicide as a major contribution to the welfare of humanity and the planet.
    They want the ruin of humanity. Let them start by setting an example of self sacrifice.

  • Tom Billings

    “Now that coal has been toppled from its perch as America’s biggest source of power, environmentalists are ready to move on down the
    fossil fuel list and tackle what they perceive as another enemy of the planet: natural gas.”

    That is natural, because their ultimate target was already being proclaimed in the 1970s, …the destruction of industrial society, and all its freedom to refuse the “guidance” of academic elites. The more power, on every level, that everyone else in society has, the farther progressive elites are from being able command the rest of us from the top of their hierarchy. It is industrial society’s power plants that make those freedoms possibe.

  • The Oatmeal Savage

    And after they destroy coal and gas, the easy pickings will be wind power because of the bird chopping and it’s utter failure in economic terms.

  • The Oatmeal Savage

    I openly mock all the greens at work for their utter gullibility and ignorance of basic facts.
    It’s not hard.

  • klgmac

    Expensive electricity generated by alternative sources is already costing people their jobs and forcing others into energy poverty. It’s truly a crime against humanity.

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