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Turkish Referendum
Erdogan Courts the Kurds
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  • FriendlyGoat

    In America (where it wasn’t supposed to happen), politics and religion just ravaged and cannibalized each other. Maybe in Turkey (where such a thing might be considered more likely in the first place), the folks will use THEIR “nail biter” to better advantage this time.

    • Proverbs1618

      “politics and religion just ravaged and cannibalized each other” Um, no they didn’t. People voted in their self-interest. Yes, that might have been quiet a shock to you. But calling it “assassinating truth on most every subject” strains your credibility. Stop being so dramatic. You losing and me winning may be the end of the world to you, but I assure you it is not to me.

      • FriendlyGoat

        People in Turkey who vote for more Islam in government—shoved down everyone’s throat by a dictator—–may think they are voting their self-interests too. Hard to say, but there has never been a place where more religion in government (Islam or otherwise) was a good idea. Now, since you’re so busy lecturing me, let me remind you that Jewish financial traders in New York did NOT elect Donald Trump (most of the Jewish people voted against him) and were not the constituency which frustrated heartlanders had in mind for enrichment when they got tricked into voting for Trumpism. So go do your bragging in Peoria, capiche?

        • Proverbs1618

          Nobody voted for more Christian doctrine in the government. The fact that you think we are having Christianity shoved down our throat by Trump Administration is an indication of how much your TDS is affecting your ability to process things clearly.
          You keep on throwing in my face that Jews in America voted for Hillary. And I will continue to reply that A) majority of Jews who regularly attend synagogue voted for Donald Trump. You know the Jews who actually follow Judaism, as opposed to Liberalism. You seem to confuse one for the other, although they are not the same. B) Majority of the Jews overseas preferred Donald Trump as well. So please please PLEASE don’t tell me, a Jew, what other Jews are trying to say. Capiche? Especially since what you provide is a crudely distorted picture of reality.
          Also, I like Trump for his dismantling of Obama legacy. That’s what we voted for in Peoria. We voted for freedom. You seem to think I’m afraid of poor people. That is one of the benefits of growing up poor. You don’t treat them as “the poors” but rather as people. Try to understand them, as opposed to treating them with your obvious contempt.
          “Those folks needed a load of your shtick BEFORE they decided to selflessly give their economic futures to Manhattan, Silicon Valley and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce Gang.” That is your opinion. It is wrong. Judging by business and consumer confidence numbers, your opinion is about as valid as your Statist view of the world. Numbers don’t lie, cowardly Statists do.

          • FriendlyGoat

            When Jewish people are reported by Jewish sources to have voted 71% Clinton, 24% Trump, there is no amount of spinning on your part which means “real” Jews or synagogue-attending Jews somehow did something else and that THEY are either better or more important than all the others. I REALLY do have the numbers on this one, JR. It’s three to one against your politics—–in YOUR OWN religious demographic.

            You are JR in New Jersey, educated in the elite stratosphere, trading in New York and self described as “materially smarter” than other people. You are not “we” in Peoria. The fact of the matter is that most of the evangelicals did vote for more Christian doctrine in government—-their own individual brands. They are itching to tear down the separation of church and state in several different ways and were courted subliminally on precisely that point. It’s the only way Trump won. Now the subject here is whether a similar stunt works in Turkey or not.

            Economically, the Trump legacy will unfold for a long time. It is not a matter of talking about “the poor”. It is a matter of the circumstances of the entire lower two thirds being downgraded for the specific benefit of the entire upper one third. Nothing else is possible from GOP policy ever. From living wage to labor standards to bargaining to consumer rights to economic regulation to anti-trust, to health care to pensions to education to voting rights—-a LOT of people are losing. It’s not just the “poverty population”, it’s the majority being systematically screwed by way of deception. At this moment, plenty of people are beginning to notice that truth has been assassinated, just as I said. This will become only more clear with each passing day, month and year.

          • Proverbs1618

            “When Jewish people are reported by Jewish sources to have voted 71% Clinton, 24% Trump, there is no amount of spinning on your part which means “real” Jews or synagogue-attending Jews somehow did something else and that THEY are either better or more important than all the others. I REALLY do have the numbers on this one, JR. It’s three to one against your politics—–in YOUR OWN religious demographic.” OK…. I will do this again. For the last time. If you don’t understand it after this, I’m giving up.
            “Jews in America voted 71% Clinton 24% Trump” is a true statement. “Majority of Jews who regularly attend a synagogue voted for Trump” is a true statement. These are not mutually exclusive. You seem to think I’m unaware of the liberal position. I live in NJ. I’m VERY familiar with it. More so than you can imagine. I may be in the overall minority, but I’m in a majority of people I respect. that means something to me, even if I don’t attend synagogue at all, except once a year. The world is bigger and more complex than your binary. There are sub-groups. Jews are not a monolith. Stop telling me it is one.
            “You are JR in New Jersey, educated in the elite stratosphere, trading in New York and self described as “materially smarter” than other people. You are not “we” in Peoria. The fact of the matter is that most of the evangelicals did vote for more Christian doctrine in government—-their own individual brands. They are itching to tear down the separation of church and state in several different ways and were courted subliminally on precisely that point. It’s the only way Trump won. Now the subject here is whether a similar stunt works in Turkey or not.”
            OK, you really seem to believe that Trump is after some grievous demolition of wall between church and state. That is insane. You saying it as if it is serious. You are honestly comparing US and Turkey, and judging democracy to be in worse shape in the US. that is not profound analysis. That is a text book case of Trump Derangement Syndrome. You really lost it. Do you really think most Americans have the same view as you do? Listen, at least I recognize my small government libertarianism is not the view of the median voter. Shine on you crazy diamond!!
            “Economically, the Trump legacy will unfold for a long time. It is not a matter of talking about “the poor”. It is a matter of the circumstances of the entire lower two thirds being downgraded for the specific benefit of the entire upper one third. Nothing else is possible from GOP policy ever. From living wage to labor standards to bargaining to consumer rights to economic regulation to anti-trust, to health care to pensions to education to voting rights—-a LOT of people are losing and they do not yet know HOW MUCH. It’s not just the “poverty population”, it’s the majority being systematically screwed by way of deception. At this moment, plenty of people are beginning to notice that truth has been assassinated, just as I said. This will become only more clear with each passing day, month and year.”
            And this is why, while I can get mad at you, I can’t STAY mad at you. You completely lose it here, old man. Now you are just a smelly urine soaked bum ranting about evil Republicans. You offer no proof. You post no links. You hear no arguments of liberal failures in our nation’s cities. You jut rant. And you conclude with saying that while all you said is actually a lie without a shred of proof, but with time will be shown to be the truth. Arrival of said time TBD.
            OMG, you like so lost this argument. It’s OK. You are at a material, I would even say fatal, disadvantage. You have to defend the indefensible. You can’t help but slip into conspiracy theories now and then. But when you say things are better of in Turkey than US, stop. And think. Really hard. Give that grey matter a good spin. Make sure to ask yourself whether saying things like this makes your argument stronger or weaker. Can you do that for me? Think?

          • FriendlyGoat

            1) Trump does not care about either religion or destroying separation of religion from state, EXCEPT that Bannon told him he could win on A) Flip-flopping himself to align with those against both birth control and abortion (yes, against birth control altogether is a major structural component of “pro-life”), B) Promising religious schools money from public taxes to teach religious doctrine, C) Promising to allow churches to retain their religious tax-exempt status WHILE shilling for and against particular political candidates, D) Stealthily promising churches “religious freedom” to discriminate in society against any persons with a lifestyle of which they disapprove. The evangelicals are expecting to receive all of that from Trump, his Congress, his agencies and his Courts. These are the main reasons they voted for him.

            B) As far as I’m concerned, Bernie Sanders represents Judaism far better than you do. For instance, he does not carry on about urine-soaked bums and cockroaches, as you do. More importantly, he does he lie to voters to tell them that their lives will be better if they will just give every possible power and financial advantage to the already-richest people.

            C) Turkey has lots of problems. I am hopeful for its people that their election will not resemble the electoral error which was just committed in the USA for all the wrong reasons.

            D) Day before yesterday—-for the first time—-I clicked “block user” to get rid of a new comment-section stalker who had arrived with a stated goal to try to drive me nuts on every thread as you do. Today, I just did the same thing with Proverbs1618. It’s my understanding you can write replies that others will see, but I won’t. So, with any luck, we just had our last direct conversation. I think I’m gonna like freedom from ya. Bye.

          • Isaiah601

            “1) Trump does not care about either religion or destroying separation of religion from state, EXCEPT that Bannon told him he could win on A) Flip-flopping himself to align with those against both birth control and abortion (yes, against birth control altogether is a major structural component of “pro-life”), B) Promising religious schools money from public taxes to teach religious doctrine, C) Promising to allow churches to retain their religious tax-exempt status WHILE shilling for and against particular political candidates, D) Stealthily promising churches “religious freedom” to discriminate in society against any persons with a lifestyle of which they disapprove. The evangelicals are expecting to receive all of that from Trump, his Congress, his agencies and his Courts. These are the main reasons they voted for him.” Yes, you are ranting again about things that NO ONE ELSE sees. Do you have any links to back any of this up? Any evidence of Bannon saying anything to this effect? Do they all speak with one voice? Is that the voice in your head? Man, I must have really broken you. I’m proud of myself.
            “2As far as I’m concerned, Bernie Sanders represents Judaism far better than you do. For instance, he does not carry on about urine-soaked bums and cockroaches, as you do. More importantly, he does not lie to voters to tell them that their lives will be better if they will just give every possible power and financial advantage to the already-richest people.” I support Judaism, Israel, and Jewish way of life. I am willing to go before any council of Orthodox Rabbis and compare my Jewishness to that of a BDS-supporting Sanders. I bet you are a fan of BDS, just to get those pesky Jews to go away. Me calling you appropriate names has nothing to do with religion. How is you being a slimy cockroach who runs away when confronted a referendum on my Jewishness? I genuinely don’t see the connection. And since you are a totalitarian Statist and Sanders proposes Statist solutions to everything, you naturally like his politics. The fact that they are stupid doesn’t bother you. It’s a feature not a bug.
            “C) Turkey has lots of problems. I am hopeful for its people that their election will not resemble the electoral error which was just committed in the USA for all the wrong reasons.” You think US should serve as a cautionary tale to Turkey. Holy molly!!! You are that out of touch with reality. I hope Democrats follow your lead forward. you are in touch with people’s concerns. People love to hear their country slandered. NAILED IT!!!
            ‘D) Day before yesterday—-for the first time—-I clicked “block user” to get rid of a new comment-section stalker who had arrived with a stated goal to try to drive me nuts on every thread as you do. Today, I just did the same thing with Proverbs1618. It’s my understanding you can write replies that others will see, but I won’t. So, just to let you know, the other audience is your audience and I no longer am. With any luck, we just had our last direct conversation. I think I’m gonna like freedom from ya. Bye.” Bible has a lot of quotes, bro. But you do the cowardly you. Make sure you are all alone in your bubble, raving about the coming Christian theocracy.

          • FriendlyGoat

            Another name, another block. You seriously are going to have to find someone else to flame.

          • Isaiah601

            You do you.

  • MartinArcher

    Sort of like Hitler courting the Jews. The fighting will continue until the Kurds are allowed to govern themselves on their own lands. Of course, that would reduce the power and prestige of the vicious Islamic dictators who run Turkey, Iran, Iraq, and Syria. What a wonderful idea.

  • Jacksonian_Libertarian

    This vote can only go one way, “The Tyrant” Erdogan will steal it in an act of barbarism.

    The only bright spot well…, less dark spot, Islamic dominated country is Indonesia, and they have been moving toward Islam, so going bad just not Turkey bad.

    The “Arab Spring” is a distant memory because the “Worst President in History” couldn’t wait to abandon the seedling of a democracy planted in Iraq. Letting all Muslims know that they would get no support from Obama, for their aspirations of having a Modern Civilized affluent nation (he didn’t have their backs). All that Blood (10,000 dead, many times that wounded) and Treasure (measured in Trillions), what a waste! That was our only strategy. Cultural Judo, as we successfully practiced it in Germany, Japan, and South Korea, and failed in Vietnam, and now Iraq. A superior culture will assimilate an inferior culture, but it takes decades in close proximity, and the looser the contact the longer it takes.

    Containment is what we are left with, and that is still going to cost us. At least Fracking is sucking up much of the oil resource funding the Islamic Culture is getting. That’s a big logistical plus for Modern Civilization.

    If they get ahold of a Nuke and use it on the West, all bets are off. “Strategic Patience”

    “The Horror of our Victory will echo for millennia” is how I heard it put.

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