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Le Pen Leads First Poll after Paris
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  • The poll you cite in the first paragraph is not the 2017 presidential elections, but rather for the regional elections that are due in France next month.

  • Jim__L

    What exactly is a “nasty party”?

    One could argue from a great deal of compelling evidence that Bolsheviks are an extremely nasty party. Yet, non-extreme communistic aspects of governance are obvious in the Welfare State.

    I expect non-extreme aspects of what WRM and other bien pensants would consider “right-wing” are going to be incorporated into European national governments over the next decade or so. Whether the EU survives this is an open question, but I doubt its disintegration, or even collapse, would bother the peoples of Europe very much.

    • Ellen

      I would go further. I think the Muslim refugee crisis may be the straw that breaks the camel’s proverbial back, and will end up as the proximate cause of the EU breakup. There must be some great irony to this; that the demise of the EU comes from a group of people they have bent over backwards to pander to for 70 years. Serves them right.

      As for the peoples of Europe, most of them will cheer the demise of the EU. Janet Daley of the Telegraph had another lovely piece on this subject recently. She has a sharp tongue filled with scorn for the EU and the left. A former Bostonian, I might add.

    • Andrew Allison

      A “nasty” party, in the eyes to TAI and all-to-many others, is one which is to the right of center-right. Such parties are, when not described as “nasty”, are labelled FAR-right, as if there’s no space between center and extreme.

    • FriendlyGoat

      A “nasty party” is one which seeks to over-simplify complex issues by stating or implying that getting rid of certain people is “the answer”.

      • Tom

        Like Democrats? (Heh. Heh. Heh.)

        • FriendlyGoat

          Happy T-Day, and heh-heh-heh to you too.

      • Jim__L

        It’s “an answer” anyway. Unfortunately, the elites haven’t come up with any better ones — and many of them even deny there’s a problem, because the problem doesn’t affect them.

      • Boritz

        And when you say “getting rid of” of course you include controlling the border in the manner of Mexico (southern border only) or Switzerland.

        • FriendlyGoat

          I’m not totally naive to the ugly realities of a world going from one billion people in 1850 to nine billion in 2050. The feelings of “need” to control borders and protect people in certain territories is only growing.

          What I meant as “nasty” is deciding we can run our politics on platforms of blaming Jews, China-men, Irish, blacks, Mexicans, Muslims, unionists, scabs, gays, feminists, Mormons etc. When we can tell people that some other groups of people are “the problem” and get away with it in politics, we will go increasingly nasty. You can look at the partial list I mentioned and recall many bad episodes in history.

          Jim_L posed a question and I tried to give it a thoughtful and theoretical answer.

          • Jim__L

            Nine billion people needn’t be an “ugly reality”. Mexico is industrializing, and developing a middle class, for example. Billions in Asia have risen out of poverty, thanks to capitalist industrialization.

            If people could stay put as their native government gets its act together to provide them with a better life, that avoids the ugly realities of “othering” that are practically inevitable with migration.

          • FriendlyGoat

            No argument there. I think you and I have already mostly agreed that the turmoil in the land of Islam is mostly the result of Islam. It’s important for Europe right now, for instance, that the group of middle eastern nations not all go so wild as to be uninhabitable—–with the residents running away from their homelands. We Americans likewise need Central and South America prosperous and economically habitable.

            And I don’t argue that controlled, regulated and taxed capitalism is a bad idea—–reminding both you and myself that “free” enterprise only works correctly when the whole of humans have gotten together in advance and enacted sensible guidelines for what is allowed and not allowed.

            As for “what is a nasty party?” I still think I gave you a good answer.

          • Jeremy Klein

            The reality, however, is that government is incompetent to control/regulate economies, and the power to tax is the power to destroy. The more government control, the more benefits to the mega-corps and bureaucrazies.

          • FriendlyGoat

            I would argue that unregulated markets and economies not controlled, adjusted and modified by governments and central banks are MORE incompetent to protect people from boom, bust and undesired wealth transfers upward. I would also argue that absence of taxation is MORE destructive (to people) than having taxation on net income.

            There are many “realities” and I do not believe that conservatives’ talking points describe them all.

          • Jeremy Klein

            And it’s that mindset that keeps our grossly unConstitutional Federal monstrosity growing and growing.

          • FriendlyGoat

            Okay, and so what?

            Yes, I know we have a conservative mantra for “small government” and, no, I don’t think anyone—-even its citizen advocates—-have any decent definition of what it means or any understanding of why it would be likely to completely screw over most people.

            MAKE THE LIST of what you want government to stop doing—-in real detail (not fuzzy talk)—-and then watch people tell you NO WAY.

  • Pete

    Why? What is the reason the Euro elite want to let all these muslims into their countries?

    I can only surmise that they are mentally ill — they are ridden with self-guilt and their their minds rotted out by multiculturalism.

    • Jim__L

      I suspect that the Euro-elite are as they have been for centuries — far more interested in their privileges and identity as a ruling class than they are in any kinship or cultural connection with those whom they rule.

      The masses are, to the elites, utterly interchangeable. That British masses should bow to a German king (instead of someone native-born or native-chosen) is perfectly sensible to these elites, as is the act of that king to call up German armies to crush those insisting on their rights as Englishmen.

      Historically, this has gone a couple of directions — one, towards the autonomy of peoples and the throwing off of ANY unaccountable aristocracy in favor of a system where “all men are created equal”. This is the good solution.

      But worse, this disconnect between ruler and ruled is also the soil in which grows National Socialism — the idea that class boundaries should be demolished via racial commonality. All Germans are created equal, and uber all others. This is the “nasty” solution.

      Going back to rule by an unaccountable international elite class, united through severe (educational) inbreeding, is not a step in the right direction for Europe or any other country.

  • Andrew Allison

    Re: “Given the manifest failure of France, Belgium, and Germany to successfully integrate native-born Muslims into the cultural and economic mainstream of their societies . . .” The fact that, whilst France and Germany have roughly the same Muslim populations, there have been four times as many incidents in France than Germany since 2011 suggests that integration has been significantly better in the latter.
    Re: “the failure of the elites to respect the will of the large swathes of people creates an increasingly illiberal right-wing backlash, which in turn drives moderates to vote for the left, and so on in cycles.” Doesn’t it seem that it’s the elites who fail to respect the will of the electorate that are illiberal?

    • InklingBooks

      Some of the differences between France and Germany lie in the source of those Muslim populations. Germany’s tend to be from Turkey. If you recall you history, Germany and the Ottoman Empire, run from Turkey, were allies in WWI. France’s are mostly from its former colonies in North Africa. Don’t equate Muslim with Muslim. The two cultures are very different, although what they have in common, an unwillingness to assimilate, may prove the critical negative factor in the long run. Turkey is no longer the secular state it once was.

      • Andrew Allison

        Thank you for making the important point (overlooked by the author) that not all Muslim cultures are created equal. While not assimilated, the Muslims in German seem to have been absorbed. Another important factor, I suspect, is the employment rate of Muslims in France and Germany. Poverty and radicalism go hand-in-hand. The danger, not recognized I fear by Chancellor Merkel, for Germany is the the flood of recent immigrants will not be absorbed, create the same kind of problem seen in France, and ultimately radicalize both groups of Muslims.

  • jeburke

    It seems to me that a political party whose platform calls for common sense ought not be derided as “far right.” To me, far right means Nazis, or perhaps monarchists. Nationalism and cultural conservatism are quite another matter. A generally erudite site like TAI ought to know the difference.

    • Jim__L

      I suspect it’s one of those conventions WRM must follow (and promulgate) to keep his university teaching job.

    • Ellen

      Right. Le Pen isn’t a loony right-winger at all. She kicked her own father out of the party he founded precisely for that reason. He is the sort of right-winger that gives conservatism a bad name. She is saying perfectly respectable things about the preservation of French society and culture. If people don’t like that particular culture, they shouldn’t choose to live in France.

      • iconoclast

        As progressives and socialists over the entire world have demonstrated repeatedly, bigotry knows no ideological bounds.

        Of course, conflating fascism with classical liberalism instead of admitting that fascism is just another variant of leftist ideology is a favorite trick of the left.

    • Jman1961

      I’ve always identified the National SOCIALIST German Workers Party as being on the far left.

  • Gary Hemminger

    One of the great ironies here is that with so many other groups resorting to identity politics. As whites slowly become a minority, why wouldn’t they resort to identity politics, like the other groups do? Yes, perhaps the white identity politics of Trump and his ilk are not very nice. But I don’t particularly think the other groups identity politics are all that positive either. It seems to me that multiculturalism and identity politics don’t have a happy ending.

    • Tom

      You are considerably smarter than a lot of people, including the entirety of the Democratic Party and Donald Trump.

    • Jim__L

      Ah, but white people can’t stick together based on identity. That’s racist.

  • Cola di Rienzo

    But the FN has been polling at the same levels since before the attacks! The PS coalition, which was set to lose almost all its seats. actually is the one thats come back. take a look at this graph from early november, page 5:

  • Donald Campbell

    Perhaps the RNC can read this to understand Trump’s popularity.

    “any discussion of immigration […] off-limits, and so drive concerned voters to where they otherwise would not go.” Hillary and Jeb! are the two trained parrots of the Unity party (motto: Two parties, one thought). Americans are tired of hearing the same old song.

  • gearbox123

    Why are these parties “bad?” It seems any time a white European or American does anything less craven then crawling on their belly and begging for mercy, they are immediately seen as the second coming of Adolf Hitler. Can anyone explain why that is? What is this ten-ton box of “White Guilt” that we must all carry on our backs for our entire lives? When does it end?

  • Beauceron

    So, wait…in your book Hollande is a centrist?

  • kishkeyum

    Ah, so now parties that take common-sense concerns seriously are “nasty.” Stop already with the silly name-calling.

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