New York, California, Illinois Hemorrhage Tax Dollars
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  • USNK2

    The exodus from New York has more to do with the overly generous Medicaid, the model for ACA’s expansion of Medicaid, being paid for by real estate taxes that retirees can no longer afford.

  • Thirdsyphon

    It’s important to note that the report ends in 2010, a year that captures the Great Recession’s impact on New York’s disproportionately massive financial industry, but fails to capture the recovery that’s taken place since then. I doubt very much that a chart ending in 2012 would show a decline for New York.

    • Corlyss

      You don’t think they lost a lot more mid- to low- income wage-earners who had to move out of the city than they recovered in smaller numbers of high tax-paying financial types? Just askin’ . . .

      • Thirdsyphon

        I think there might be a net loss of population, but not a net loss of the state’s total aggregate income. Remember, this is NY, where ticker tape is the state flower. It doesn’t take a lot of hedge fund billionaires to make up for the lost income of a much larger number of regular folks.

        • Michael Shorts

          The report does not measure the “state’s total aggregate income.” The report measures the net income of domestic migrants into and out of the state. Unless your hedge fund billionaire moves into or out of New York state, his income is not counted in this report.

          • Thirdsyphon

            Fair enough. But then, a lot of that outflow could be people who came to New York poor, became rich, and are now retiring to Florida. I think if working-age New Yorkers were relocating to Texas and the Carolinas en masse, I’d probably know about it.

          • Snowguy

            You assume here the Florida-bound retiree is being replaced with another like him or her, I think. Is (s)he?

    • LouAnnWatson

      tax paying baby boomer exodus has begun…

      • Thirdsyphon

        Enjoy Florida! I hear that except for this time of year, it’s pretty nice down there.

  • Pete

    I’m out here because, over a twenty year period, the company I work for went first from NYC to New Jersey and then ten year later, from NJ to a purplish Midwestern state.

    The driving forces behind these relocation were high taxes, regulation and the cost of doing business (workman’s comp., health care, unions, etc.)

    And aside from the company’s point of view, of the three states mentioned, I find the one I’m currently in the best of the bunch in terms of living.

    My only complaint is that the company did go South. That would have been even better.

  • Corlyss

    This scenario is beginning to sound like the ancient Greeks having to move their cities because their harbors kept silting up. Why did the harbors silt up? Because of poor goat management. Goats ate all the vegetation in the surrounding hills, which caused tremendous run-off into the harbors. Humans can fix what humans caused, but like the 12 step program, it requires identifying the problem correctly. The blue model still has not identified the problem yet.

  • NCMountainGirl

    Perceptions about the ability to change matter. I am not the only person who left Illinois because it was fast becoming dominated by the Chicago political machine

  • f1b0nacc1

    Wait, people respond to incentives and disincentives? That cannot possibly be right….it isn’t fair!!!!!

    • bpuharic

      Wonder how those wonderful, free market red states would do if they stopped being subsidized by the blue states. Even Rick Perry slipped in the back door of the White House, with his hand out, for $100M in healthcare subsidies

      But let’s not discuss that…

      • Terenc Blakely

        Even if true (and I suspect that’s a very selective, biased analysis), it doesn’t matter. If blue state ‘subsidies’ of red states was cut off today, it wouldn’t change the outflow of people from blue to red states at all.

        • bpuharic

          Sure it would. Taxes would go up in the red states because their socialist welfare payments from the blue states would end.

          Can’t grasp it can you?

          • sukietawdry

            That’s actually the stupidest thing you’ve said so far. Congratulations.

        • sukietawdry

          There are no blue states subsidizing red states. Please stop acting like this guy has a valid point.

          • bpuharic

            Money is like enthalpy. If someone loses it, someone gains it

            The red states are socialist moochers.

          • bpuharic

            Money is like enthalpy. If someone loses it, someone gains it

            The red states are socialist moochers.

      • And how much of those blue-state taxes are paid from profits made by investing in red-state enterprises, including those that have left the blue states because of their unfriendly policies?

        The location of the cash register is not necessarily where the money is made, parrot … so who is “subsidizing” who, here?

        • bpuharic

          If that were true, the red states would have higher incomes and therefore higher taxes

          The fact they’re socialists being subsidized by the blue states says that the red states are just right wing moochers

          • Two words: Wall Street. So much of the profit from red-state enterprises go there, then get churned into income for the financiers and investors in those blue states.

            Add to that other concentrations of wealth, often established before the Progressive Great Society screwed those states up.

            And while they might not be smart enough to move out of the Blue, they are certainly smart enough to invest where the profits are.

            Just remember, it is the blue states – and the Federal Government – that over-promised on pensions, benefits, and welfare and are now in a pickle and/or unfriendly to businesses that make a legitimate profit … not the red states.

            We didn’t ask for your welfare … Progressives imposed that upon us.

          • bpuharic

            The great minimum wage job producing states of the south subsidize their 3rd world status by getting handouts from the taxes paid by blue state tax payers. Then the right tells us how wonderful this model is

            Again and again we see this form of right wing socialism. TARP was just another example. The right wages class warfare against the middle class then says this is proof of American exceptionalism

          • bpuharic

            Except, of course, there are just a few thousand Wall STreet bankers…the fact they make enormous amounts of money…enabled by right wing tax policies…kind of tells us about the failure of right wing supply side economics.

            THe right takes from the middle class via high tax rates, gives to the rich via low capital gains tax rates then complains that the rich aren’t making enough and are paying taxes that are too high.

            Oh..by the way…you’re wrong on the blue states. WRM himself had a chart last week showing that states like TN, TX and OK are in financial trouble

            So you might want to turn off Rush (PBUH) and get some actual…you know…facts….

      • LouAnnWatson

        no one said that states don’t participate in the federal largess, they just manage it better and not cheerfully give it away to every leftist grifter with their hand out.

        • bpuharic

          There aren’t many leftists in the red states. There ARE lots of people with their hands out, getting paid for by the blue states via tax transfer payments.

      • gitarfan

        You mean if blue states realize they have run out of other people’s money and need to go to a red state model? Perish the thought!

        • bpuharic

          Hey genius…the blue states are PAYING for the red states to ahve low taxes. You don’t know what transfer payments are, do you? You have Rush (PBUH) and that’s all you need.

          You right wngers are such geniuses.

          • gitarfan

            The problem with condescension is you have to be right. You’re not, peckerwood. Texas has an energy boom going on, in case you missed it. Oil field service jobs pay considerably more than minimum wage. Yes, there are a lot of minimum wage jobs in Texas. We have LOTS of immigrants and young people. We are the 2nd most populous state and have a lower cost of living, by far, than blue states. So a dollar goes farther here. We are also adding lots of good paying jobs in finance and medical services from jobs leaving blue states too. Your Rush joke is old and state and, oh yeah, you smell.

          • bpuharic

            Hmmm…so if I’m right I get to condescend?

            Poor baby. Poor little right wing baby. I’m right:

            http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_reckoning/2012/10/25/blue_state_red_face_guess_who_benefits_more_from_your_taxes.html

            And I lived in Farmersville for 2 years. Yes, I know what Texas is like.

            Which is why I don’t live there any more.

          • gitarfan

            Bless your heart. We love you for the way you wipe the drool off your chin. You’re using a biased story from a writer who admits he’s biased and counts Medicare and SS payments and money spent on military bases as welfare to bolster your argument and you think you’re right. You better get back on the lithium and thank you for moving out of Texas.

          • bpuharic

            And yet those are all federal spending apportioned among the states by law. And the red states get more welfare such as AGRICULTURAL SUBSIDIES

            Yeah you go ahead keep listening to Rush (PBUH).

            Apparently to the right wing, welfare isn’t welfare if they say it’s not.

          • gitarfan

            I’m not sure which is worse, your ignorance or your arrogance. I don’t listen to Rush. Never have and don’t care to. You do understand that IA and IL, two states that went for Obama get a lot of subsidies. Why do you think they built so many ethanol plants there? So does CA, MN, IN and CO. All Obama states. Apparently your definition of welfare isn’t the same as everyone else’s. Why am I not surprised?

          • bpuharic

            Ignorance? You don’t even understand your own argument

            You right wingers thunder your disapproval of the feds. You thump your chests with your arrogant boot strapping stories then run to Washington with your hands out for welfare checks all the while complaining about people getting welfare checks

            You’re too dumb to know you’re a hypocrite. And that’s pretty much what a right winger is

          • gitarfan

            I bet you’re great at parties. The majority of the people you call right wingers pay their taxes, raise families, obey the law and do all the normal things families do. Very few get any government assistance like WIC or ADF, traditonal welfare payments. Those who have raised their families and are retired collect their SS which they paid into all of their working lives along with Medicare for which they did the same thing. That is NOT welfare. It’s system that won’t last and needs to be changed and I bet that change will affect me before it does you. I’m okay with that. Your claim that all “right wingers” have their hand out is not supported by facts. So when you write we’re too dumb to know I have to tell you you’re too eaten up with hate to see.

          • bpuharic

            Except, of course, so do liberals. And right wingers vote for idiots who think homosexuality is a crime (Scalia), that the banks should be completely deregulated (Paul Ryan), capital gains taxes for the rich should be eliminated and the middle class should pay ALL taxes (ditto).

            And the right gets LOTS of welfare. The states getting the most federal bucks are the southern states.

            The states getting huge amounts of agricultural subsidies are southern states. Conservatives push to bankroll the rich when they screw up and also push to eliminate their taxes when they make billions. It’s socialism

            for the rich

          • gitarfan

            Well you’ve gone off the deep end now so au rivoir

      • Loader2000

        Well, as those wealthy and middle class people flee California for Texas, the share of Federal taxes contributed by the red states will go up (do to the progressive nature of the federal tax system) and the share of the blue states will go down until this trend you mention possibly reverses itself. In other words, as long as wealthy and middle class people are fleeing blue states for red states, it doesn’t matter very much if some red states are currently poor. It is the direction of the trend, not the current point on the line that is most important.

        • bpuharic

          Yes, American needs more minimum wage jobs…TX having the highest percentage of MW jobs in the county

          The right is waging class war against America.They think the middle class will make fine servants

          • cubanbob

            You get paid what you are worth. Want more, be worth more.

          • bpuharic

            Really? Proof?

            Oh..Rush (PBUH) said it.

            The fact US social mobility is the worst in the western world? The right just ignores it because they have a fairy tale that says ‘you’re paid what you’re worth’.

            More bedtime stories for right wing children

          • Loader2000

            I don’t understand the point of your comment. Who cares which state has the most minimum wage jobs. If lots of middle class people are moving to Texas, that won’t be true much longer anyway. Furthermore, the Bureau of Labor statistics numbers are greatly distorted because they are based on the Federal minimum wage, not the state minimum wage. For example, if a federal MW is 7.75 and a state has a minimum wage of 8.00, that state is going have a dramatically lower percentage of minimum wage earners in the statistics (compared to a state with a MW of 7.75) even if they actually have the same percentages of MW earners. This puts states like Texas at a huge disadvantage in the calculation compared to states like California that have a MW higher than the Federal one, which doesn’t even account for the higher cost of living in CA anyway.

          • bpuharic

            It’s not which state has the most MW jobs and which has the highest PERCENTAGE of MW jobs.

            If TX builds its economy on impoverishing the middle class, by all means let it rush to the bottom of the 3rd world heap.It’s the policy of the right that the middle class is overpaid. That’s one reason we have the worst inequality of any western country.

            The right is building an economic system based on supply side delusions which are plainly and provably false. Yet because they increase inequality and make the rich massively rich, the right views that as a success.

            So the right’s plan is to increase inequality, drive down middle class wages and increase the share of national income taken by the 1 percent

            Sounds like a great way to make America strong, doesn’t it?

        • sukietawdry

          Please don’t accepts this fool’s premise that states “contribute” federal taxes. They don’t. It’s a completely specious argument.

          • bpuharic

            He seems to think people don’t pay taxes. Perhaps if he sent me his paycheck I could help him

      • Snowguy

        “Wonder how those wonderful, free market red states would do if they stopped being subsidized by the blue states.”
        I think you mean to ask how those dependent on government payouts–civil servants, welfare recipients, etc.–will do once they cannot get enough tax collections from value-producers. That divide is far more important than geographic distinctions. That is what this map is demonstrating.

        • bpuharic

          Yeah the red states do depend on alot of govt welfare. There are no value producers in the south right wing states because if there WERE they wouldn’t depend on the blue states for handouts.

          They thump their chests then come to Washington for handouts.

          • sukietawdry

            It’s getting tedious telling you how remarkably stupid your argument is.

      • ejochs

        You mean how people retire and collect their SS checks in red states? And how military bases are located in red states? The high tax states actually cheat the government by their citizens being allowed to deduct state income taxes from the federal pot-don’t you think that should be abolished?

        • bpuharic

          Uh…folks in red states get to deduct their taxes too. Amazing…remarkable…that you didn’t know that

          And the red states are just moochers…welfare queens, socialists taking from blue states. If they had to pay their own way they’d soon discover what a sham conservatism is

          • cubanbob

            And just exactly how are they mooching according to you?

          • bpuharic

            You’re seriously asking how someone who gets more from the govt than he puts in is a moocher? Thought you right wingers had the lock on that!

      • sukietawdry

        Good God. Blue states don’t subsidize red states. No state subsidizes another. The people and businesses that pay taxes to the federal government regardless of what state they occupy subsidize the people and businesses that take benefits from the federal government regardless of what state they occupy.

        I’d like to meet the person who first introduced this argument and thought himself clever.

        • bpuharic

          Wrong.You need to stop listening to Rush (PBUH). Blue states pay MORE federal taxes than they get back. Red states pay less. It’s socialist.

          • cubanbob

            Really? You mean states like Texas that have no state income tax so therefore the federal taxpayers in Texas who pay a higher percentage of their income to the Feds than the blue states? Those taxpayers that are subsidizing you?

          • bpuharic

            Hey that’s a state decision. State’s rights, you know. Another right wing success story

  • ArtNorwalk

    The Tax Foundation study seems fundamentally flawed because it ranks net income gain or loss in raw dollars with no weighting for a state’s population or aggregate income. That New York lost $50B while my state of Rhode Island lost just over $1B certainly doesn’t mean that RI fared 50 times better than NY. The relative size of the impact on the states’ economies is what counts and that isn’t shown.

  • bpuharic

    Good heavens! Lookie here:

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/04/the_red_state_ripoff.html

    States like CA, NY and IL pay more in federal taxes than they get. What a coincidence that WRM specifically mentions them as being examples of income flight….

    • WilliamK

      Do you have any idea how little the remark you made has to do with the above discussion?

      Libs cannot do math.

      • bpuharic

        He’s not the brightest guy on the block…doesn’t realize the blue states are paying for the red states to have low taxes. Then they get to lecture the blue states about high taxes

        Folks…you can’t make this stuff up

    • LouAnnWatson

      right to work states with low tax rates are going to thrive…blue states with cities like detroit, oakland, camden, newark. will be bankrupted, buh bye.

      • bpuharic

        THat’s true. Look at what low wages and no worker’s rights have done for Somalia…the right wing paradise

    • Loader2000

      You cannot come to any informed conclusions based on the fact you stated unless we know what percentage of federal taxes are actually returned to the states for their own individual use. If it is a very small percentage, than the fact that some states pay more in federal taxes doesn’t really matter because you are talking about small percentages anyway. Another thing to consider is that any state with lots of very rich people along side lots of very poor people (think LA) is going to pay a lot more in Federal taxes than a state with a lot of middle class people, simply due to the progressive way the tax brackets have been set up. This doesn’t meet that the state with lots of Rich people (and very poor people) is the place you want to live an raise a family, especially if you are not one of the elite.

      • bpuharic

        We’re talking transfer payments here…welfare

        And the right is on welfare. The right loves welfare. As long as it goes to the wealthy.

    • sukietawdry

      Good heavens! States don’t pay federal taxes; individuals and businesses do and it makes no difference in what state they reside or do business. The flight is from state and local taxes, not federal.

      Of all the nonsensical economic arguments the left makes, this is one of the silliest. Let’s try a hypothetical: Let’s say every individual and business that pays federal taxes relocates to Texas. Would you then argue that Texas funds the federal government and the other 49 states are hangers-on and moochers not paying their fair share?

      • bpuharic

        Ah. Makes no difference in spite of the fact the conservatives get welfare paid for by the blue states

        Some argument you have. People in blue states pay more taxes so people in Texas can pay less

        Socialist welfare.That’s what conservatism is. Welfare for the rich

  • LouAnnWatson

    remington arms, kahr arms and more to follow…buh bye!

  • Dustin James

    There is no income tax in Texas. Gains there would be due to increased sales tax, property tax revenues and taxes paid by employers.

  • koblog

    California was once America’s premier aerospace center. Former representative and Oakland mayor Ron Dellums (D-CA) overtly said he did not want that industry in the Fairyland of the West, where only “acceptable” business was allowed.

    He got his wish.

    And many, many other businesses were added to the “unacceptable” list. They left too.

  • SClanding

    States have to be on the lookout that these refugees do not bring their idiotic budget destroying ideas along for the ride.

    North Carolina has had to deal with a temporary insanity influx which it is currently in the process of ridding itself from….of course, the thug leftists have run to masta Obama for some intimidation help but it is not going to work.

    The type of stupidity is these loons came in and ran with the environmental nutjobs to raise the price of fuel by over 50cents a gallon compared to every other state in the region, which of course these mental midget loons are too incredibly stupid to figure out raised the price of everything else in that state as well, so now they are screaming because first year teachers are “only” making 44K a year and can’t make it>>>>> so these nuts raise the hades out of the price of everything in the state then scream about the “evil” people who refuse to pay more taxes to fix their stupidity.

    Can’t let the nuts come in with their miserable ideas. Send them packing back to the hellholes they created.

  • teapartydoc

    According to one commenter all of the fiscal problems of cities is because of some Wall Street conspiracy, and now all of these Blue states are going broke because they are stupid enough to be making transfer payments to Red states. This is exactly the kind of thinking that got all of these Blue states into trouble in the first place. Sheer idiocy. But hey, maybe we can all turn into Swedes. Sort of like Bradley Manning.

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