HHS Secretary Compares Obamacare Opponents to Racists
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  • JDogg Snook

    “As Americans, we do have a duty to make quality, cheap health care
    available to all our fellow citizens, and the failure to do so is major
    stain on our national character.”

    No we don’t. Who said?

    • bpuharic

      Americans did. That’s why Obama won. Twice. And why the GOP lost. Twice.

      • saailer

        The crisis in health care is manageable – without the radical, extreme measures passed in the Affordable Care Act. 5% of patients account for 50% of health care spending. And just 1% account for 22% of the
        spending. The ACA is a trillion dollar piece of legislation to deal with
        a problem that mostly affects 5% of health care users…It will lead to bureaucratic rationing of health care. BTW..Obama re-elected by fifth smallest margin since 1964.

        • bpuharic

          I hope it leads to ‘bureaucratic rationing’ (whatever that means.) Right now Paris Hilton gets the world’s best medical care but the poor son of a hard working janitor gets nothing. Do you REALLY think we DON’T ration healthcare?

          And what makes you think cost profiles are different in other countries? That does not explain the costs of our programs.

          • saailer

            Sorry, didn’t mean to shine a light on your ignorance with the phrase ‘bureaucratic rationing’ He explained: a fixed and limited amount of healthcare relating to the way administrative systems are organized.
            Where did you come up with “cost profiles in different countries”? All my data is for the USA which clearly explains the cost of Obamacare vs return on investment. Data is accurate…You see, attacking comments without form and function exposes lack of knowledge…

          • bpuharic

            If conservatives had something accurate about US healthcare besides “WE’RE RICH AND WE DON’T COVER EVERYONE!!” we’d have had a policy long ago

            Your failure is obvious as is your embarrassment.

        • Andrew Allison

          Please don’t feed the troll.

    • rheddles

      And I would add that WRM’s statement indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of our national character and what made us an exceptional nation.

      • bpuharic

        And yet Obama ran on it. Twice. And won. Seems most Americans disagree with you that ‘exceptionalism’ means death.

        • Corlyss

          Obama ran on a lot of things in 2008, one of them being his post-racial character. Who’d o’ thunk the Congress would be so venal and corrupt as to actually present the nation with the train-wreck Obamacare is? And of course in 2012, the stupid electorate thought Obama had no responsibility for the economy and that his performance at NJ was worth another term.
          There’s no accounting for an electorate as stupid and uninformed as that.

          • bpuharic

            The right sees race

            Those of us in the middle class saw healthcare. No wonder you didn’t vote for him.

            And the train wreck comment, courtesy of Rush (PBUH), got alot of mileage…the fact it’s out of context?

            Who cares?

            Obama, of course, had the economy GROWING in his first term, after the near collapse during the GOP ‘management’ of 2007. Thanks for nothing.

          • Andrew Allison

            Still haven’t had breakfast??

          • Corlyss

            I’m retired. I don’t even swing my leg over the side of the bed until noon. 🙂

          • Andrew Allison

            Me too, at least as to retired. But for the love of God let’s all of the rest of us stop feeding that damned troll!

        • J D

          Because “our national character” is majoritarianism, right.

          That you’re crass, persistently deal in cliches and informal fallacies, and are at least partially here to provoke (troll), isn’t what gets me. It’s that when challenged you posture and condescend from below. You can’t bring yourself to, or aren’t able to even accurately describe your ideological opposition.

          • bpuharic

            Hey I’m always willing to learn from the uneducated

            Other than failed supply side economics and radical Christianist govt intrusion, what single policy does the right offer the middle class?

            Go ahead. We’ll wait.

          • Andrew Allison

            So why feed the monster? Wouldn’t simply voting down his rants make life more pleasant for the rest of us?

    • circleglider

      As Americans, we do have a duty to make quality, cheap health care
      available to all our fellow citizens, and the failure to do so is major stain on our national character.

      Really, how can anyone but a deeply committed humanitarian Progressive make such a claim? This really negates each and every one of Mead’s postings about the Blue Social Model.Wishful mythologizing about utopian paradise (along with a severe case of cognitive dissonance) is what one expects from the organs of the Progressive Left. Heretofore, Professor Mead has stood apart as an intelligent and prescient voice patiently explaining why these well-intended impulses have such deadly real-world consequences. One hopes that this sentence was written by a young and naïve intern.

      • bpuharic

        If American doesn’t provide something as basic as healthcare, why do we provide police, fire, or anything else? This rabid Randian fundamentalism is so radical NO other advanced nation in the world does it. And they haven’t collapsed.

  • bpuharic

    Got me with this one…although I’m sure it matters not a bit to WRM, I didn’t expect him to come out in favor of universal healthcare for all Americans. Give credit where it’s due…

  • One nasty rhetorical trick used by such people is to argue that if you don’t support a particular policy, you oppose the thing the policy is supposedly trying to do. How can you oppose something called “The Affordable Health Care Act”? After all, it’s about affordable health care! It’s right there in the title!

    After all, somewhere in the 2000+ pages of spaghetti code comprising the legislation must be something that makes health care affordable. It’s right next to the pony.

    • bpuharic

      Funny how every single advanced country does what we failed to do. American conservatives seem proud of exceptional American failures

      • Kavanna

        This is why these supposedly advanced countries are going bankrupt, in addition to destroying medical innovation within their borders. Until recently, they relied on us for that. Now they have to rely on India and Brazil.

        • bpuharic

          More Rush (PBUH) bullet points.

          Have you forgotten WE nearly went bankrupt? Somehow the right, with its revisionist view of history. exculpates Wall Street for blowtorching the economy while heaping blame on the middle class.

          And the reason medical innovation was within our borders was the same reason most Nobel prizes in Physics were…the US, after the war, had infrastructure to educate people. NOW those countries are catching up. Just read the journals to see how many excellent foreign researchers there are.

          Turn off Rush (PBUH). Turn off Fox. Start thinking for yourself.

          • Jim__L

            Turn off NPR. I was behind the scenes at a breaking news story earlier this year, and got the enlightening opportunity to read news coverage of an event I was intimately familiar with.

            Scoreboard: Fox, who presented a dozen facts about the event, got all but one right.

            NPR, who presented a mere four facts about the event, got all but one WRONG.

          • bpuharic

            Got that on Fox, did you? Oh, look, a Farleigh Dickinson study finds Fox viewers are the most MISINFORMED:

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/23/fox-news-less-informed-new-study_n_1538914.html

          • Jim__L

            Did you even read my post?

            I knew the facts of the story because I was part of the story.

            This is not a “my-news-source-can-beat-up-your-news-source” argument. This is a test of various news sources against the truth.

            NPR didn’t fare well. You’re better off reading USA Today.

          • bpuharic

            I was being kind. No one cares about your Reader’s Digest anecdotes. Liberals rely on evidence while conservatives rely on anecdotes.

            And go ahead. YOU repeat the scientific FDU study. Let us know how it stacks up against your Reader’s Digest just-so-story

          • Jim__L

            Actually, you cited an article about Fox viewers (a favorite target of the quasi-tolerant Credentialed Elites) and I cited evidence about the reporting itself. Even if true, your evidence does not invalidate my point.

            As far as “studies” go, those must be taken with a grain of salt. The Sociology PhD’s I know have a truly horrifying habit of relating how, when the work they do is totally inconclusive, their faculty advisors massage the data to come to a conclusion. (It wouldn’t be “fair” if all their hard work were for nothing, would it?) Guess what kind of worldview those manufactured conclusions tend to support…

          • bpuharic

            You cite an anecdote. So does my mother. So does my barber and my mechanic

            I cite a reference to a study. So yes, your point is invalid unless my barber is a scientist.

            And go ahead. Keep burying us with anecdotes. I love ’em. I read Reader’s Digest at the supermarket checkout lane.

          • Jim__L

            I will be very, very happy to watch MOOCs destroy the podium from which the Credentialed Elite promulgates its “studies”.

          • saailer

            I am shocked…It has a Mother??

          • Jim__L

            It has learned that mothers exist, and humans have them.

            I’m very impressed — things have come a long way in the years since “Eliza”.

          • saailer

            There ya go…Now isn’t this special: “Conservatives rely on anecdotes”…Yikes are you on something? Yep there goes another blanket remark by his majesty Burpaholic. Hate, your majesty, runs in your blood…People like you is one of the reasons nothing gets done.

          • bpuharic

            Why do conservatives have nothing to say but fundamentalist anecdotes?

          • Andrew Allison

            You did it again! ;>)
            I understand how hard it is, and have been guilty of it myself, but fed trolls are indefatigable.

          • bpuharic

            As are the right wing intellectual hobos who think you’re not allowed to question Wall Street.

          • Jim__L

            Yes, yes, yes, the temptation is just so hard to resist. =/

          • saailer

            No one is as misinformed as yourself…Constant attacks without reading the comment. Overwhelming blanket remarks and tangent thinking spells misinformed to me

          • bpuharic

            The fact conservatives are misinformed by the sources of their information is a fact

            The fact you don’t like it? I’m not surprised

          • saailer

            All Conservatives are misinformed by their sources of information is a fact? That is like saying all Liberals are under 6′ in height…How can you make such statements? Common sense and basic maturity negates such general conclusions. Anymore then saying all Liberals are misinformed by their sources of information…What you refer to as fact are thoughts within your own mind without data to support them…But prefixing each sentence with “all” is childish…If you made any sense we could have a sharing of ideas but you are in a constant attack smear mode…What the h#$$ is wrong with you? your ludicrous remarks gain nothing except contempt…Drop the facade of sarcastic righteousness and engage with useful thoughts…Otherwise shut up.

          • bpuharic

            I refer to the recent Farleigh Dickinson University study showing that Fox news viewers are less informed than viewers of other news organizations (not that Fox qualifies); by their persistent inability to use data (e.g. the continued belief in the mythology of ‘supply side economics), etc.

            In addition, the routine characterization of Obama as a ‘socialist’ shows that there’s little awareness of what socialism is among conservatives.

            Methinks thou doest protest too much.

          • saailer

            Socialism differs not between Conservatives and Liberals…Socialism is the stage between capitalism and communism: in Marxist theory, the stage
            after the proletarian revolution when a society is changing from
            capitalism to communism, marked by pay distributed according to work
            done rather than need…This disabled Veteran will fight against the above with my last breath…You visited other countries? Pick one and move your sorry a$$ to it…Methinks I don’t protest enough…Thank God you were not in combat with me your crying would have gotten us all killed…Type away wus it’s still a free country

          • bpuharic

            So you went to Wiki and learned why liberals aren’t socialists?

            Good for you. Now convince the other 50M right wingers of what you just learned.

            And I’m a patriot. You’re not. I want to make this country better. You just want it to fail your way.

          • saailer

            Last time…Liberals are not socialist??? you say I’m not a patriot??? I want my country to fail??? So much for attempting to hold a conversation with a complete idiot…Socialism is blind to Conservative or Liberal ideals…Understand? and once again you are somehow convinced I’m not a patriot…Without any knowledge you draw erroneous conclusions…I’m done wasting my time with the likes of you…Therefore I’ll teach algebra to a cat; better result…your a mess guy, a total mess

          • bpuharic

            No liberals are not socialist and you certainly can’t point to any policies showing they are. Liberals are socialist like conservatives are nazis. Both statements are ridiculous.

            You’re not a patriot, you’re a nationalist. There’s a difference. Patriots believe in American values of freedom, a viable and strong middle class, and the equality of all people as expressed in the DoI.

            Nationalists believe that America is great because it has the greatest rich people in history. Its exceptionalism is in its ability to provide freedom for the rich to be rich. This means tax policies favoring capital, and disfavoring middle class stability. This means union busting, tax policies putting greater burdens on the middle class for retirement, etc.

            There’s not a single current economic policy favored by conservatives that’s steered towards the middle class. It’s ALL based on supply side economics. And we know that’s a failure

            THAT is the difference between a PATRIOT and a NATIONALIST.

          • saailer

            By your definition I am a patriot…Now simple tell me if you are a; #1) a Liberal or #2) A modern American liberal…To refer to someone as a liberal is not an accurate label, it is more at a general label…There are many forms of conservatives and liberals alike…Therefore, to better understand your point of view describe what type of liberal you are…Lets hold a conversation without sarcastic or demeaning remarks…Drop the anger, take the chip off your shoulder and answer the questions…

          • bpuharic

            I agree; let’s drop labels that don’t apply…like the nonsense about liberals being socialist.

            I agree there are many types of conservative….just as there are many types of liberals.

          • saailer

            Agreed…Many comments that use the label liberal are inclusive of modern American liberals which are Socialist…Now, what exactly is your position concerning obamacare?
            The numbers given earlier are documented…Free healthcare isn’t really free and who is in need to the exclusion of folks on the dole? Darn few…People become incensed at giving free everything to those that can work but play the system to sit until the cheeks off their A$$ grow together…This is a fact; to whom are drugs a major part of their life? Those who receive government assistance…If drug screening were to take place in order to receive assistance…If we clean up the horrid waste and criminal activity in medicare and stop killing a generation of people by paying them not to work crime would dramatically decrease and health would increase…It’s healthy to work hard everyday and unhealthy not too..
            Capitalism is a good thing when controlled by laws that benefit the workers…School teacher unions are destroying our kids…
            I’ll stop there

          • bpuharic

            “free” healthcare is BETTER than free

            First, it works. We have the most expensive system in the world. “Socialized” systems are cheaper, just as effective and cover everyone.

            Is it cheaper to treat people in emergency rooms?

            And we put milliionaires on the dole. Romney got a $10M check from the FDIC. Capital gains tax expenditures are a form of welfare. Agricultural subsidies are welfare. We seem to think welfare for the rich is fine, but giving healhcare to the poor somehow destroys America? That doesn’t make sense.

          • saailer

            I think your off on a tangent by mentioning rommey and agri. stick with the actual welfare and from there offer an opinion don’t avoid what I mentioned…we can communicate if you stop going off on tangent

          • bpuharic

            Why is welfare for the rich a ‘tangent’? A govt expense is an expense whether it’s for the rich or poor.Again this appears to me to be a value driven, not an economics driven argument

          • saailer

            Why do you keep avoiding my original point?? going off on a tangent is to address your idea of welfare for the rich…I never mentioned it at all…It;s your avoidance of welfare for the poor;; non working generation after generation of uneducated folks who are paid to not work when there is not a thing wrong with them…PLEASE ADDRESS THE ISSUE STATED! Drug test welfare recipients would decrease crime, save billions and increase the health of millions…Debate the issue for goodness sake and keep your comments within these issues…Last chance, I have bigger fish to fry and can not keep forcing you to answer a simple question…If you go off from the subject one more time, I must move on…What you are doing is proving your inability to keenly comment on a particular issue with poise and useful commentary…NOW ARE YOU CAPABLE OF ANSWERING A STRAIGHT FORWARD QUESTION OR SHALL YOU MAKE A DISTORTED LIST OF BS FOR ALL HERE TO READ?
            IS A TRILLION DOLLAR LAW NECESSARY TO SUPPORT 5% OF THE POPULATION ? THIS IS THE QUESTION …PLEASE OFFER AN ANSWER OR LEAVE!!!

          • Jim__L

            I prefer the term “Eurosocialism”, i.e., socialism as practiced in present-day Europe.

            The word “socialist” was used to describe themselves by such diverse historical figures as Hitler, Stalin, and George Orwell. Any term that can cover all three of those is so imprecise as to be meaningless. (Although, interestingly, “Progressive” covers them all, in that each worked towards a vision of a new future.)

          • bpuharic

            Hitler was a right wing fascist. He based nazism on traditional moral values and allied himself with Franco and Japanese fascists while killing communists.

            The right doesn’t know alot and they don’t know history

            The term ‘socialist’ was a relic of the early days of the nazi party. Hitler was well funded by German industrialists

            Just like Romney was.

          • Andrew Allison

            Please don’t feed the troll!

          • Andrew Allison

            Don’t fed the troll.

          • bpuharic

            PLEASE!!!! PLEASE DON’T FEED THE TROLL!! He might tell you something Rush (PBUH) would rather you didn’t know.

        • Jim__L

          Don’t forget that these supposedly “advanced” countries are also experiencing a precipitous drop in their birthrates, as money is diverted from the young to the old, and young families fail to form.

          Eurosocialism leads to extinction.

          When policies in the US (Medicare, Medicaid) mimic Eurosocialist policies, they fail too, leading to bankruptcy, and ultimately the abandonment of the very people they were designed to help. In the process, these government policies destroy alternative, more sustainable structures. The Utopian is the enemy of the Good.

          • bpuharic

            There should be a Godwin’s law for people who use ‘socialism’ like the left uses ‘nazi’. Both indicate shallow thinking

            For 50 years western Europe’s standard of living has been comparable to our own. The right’s free market fetish doesn’t bear scrutiny since it’s a failure.

            The US has the highest inequality of ANY western country and the middle class hasn’t had a raise in 30 years, while the income of the 1% tripled.

            The right objects to moral hazard on the part of the middle class, but believes it’s the job of the middle class to support the wealthy, no matter how badly they screw up.

          • Jim__L

            Funny, I was thinking there should be a Godwin’s Law for playing the Race card.

            From my travels in Europe, I saw firsthand that Europe’s standard of living is NOT comparable to our own. In terms of the material wealth of the middle class (household appliances, cars, houses, etc), you’re better off in a dusty suburb or exurb of America than you are in a European city (or suburb).

            The Euro-fetish of the American Left is no more than “I have seen the future, and it works!” propaganda. It’s a pity so many people forget history so quickly.

          • bpuharic

            No one mentioned race.

            And yes, I’ve traveled to Europe and Asia. I saw firsthand that many countries standards of living for the middle class are equal to our own, and that of the poor better.

            The fetish of the American right to insulate itself from learning ANYTHING that can succeed if it’s not John Wayne approved is actually killing people.

          • Jim__L

            Er, Kathleen Sibelius mentioned race.

            Do you actually read anything here, or do you just skim for keywords?

            Should we congratulate you on passing the Turing test?

          • bpuharic

            She’s not posting here but you be sure and let me know if she does.

          • Andrew Allison

            You’re troll-feeding!

          • bpuharic

            If there was no troll feeding here, you’d starve

          • Jim__L

            Yeah…. sorry about that.

  • Fat_Man

    The picture of Secretary Sebelius above must be a photograph of her security body double. On TV she looks just like the Wicked Witch of the West.

    • f1b0nacc1

      I’ve met her several times in person….the photo is VERY flattering….I think the Wicked Witch is much closer to the mark!

  • Kavanna

    This is just another case of Boomer narcissism. It’s the generation’s defining trait — its mix of self-absorption and self-righteousness. They don’t get that it makes everyone else sick, besides making life in America absurdly expensive in many ways. Is making the Boomers feel good about themselves really worth this?

    What were the voters thinking when they re-elected these clowns?

    As for other countries, their systems are going bankrupt faster than ours. Why we want to imitate them (except the ones that have reformed, like Canada, that should be imitated) is another mystery.

  • Jim__L

    They’re pulling out the race card — that means they’re losing.

  • Corlyss

    “opponents of the Affordable Care Act to opponents of civil rights legislation. ”

    If there’s anyone who thinks this formulation is coincidental and unrelated to the Zimmerman debacle, that person is naïve.

  • Beauceron

    You can’t really blame her for this one. She’s at the NAACP meeting. The one way to get that audience on your side (and every speaker naturally wants the audience on their side) is to tell them something is racist.

  • bpuharic

    Wonder if WRM will mention that New York residents will see their health insurance premiums FALL under Obamacare

    Bet he doesn’t say a peep

    http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/07/17/obamacare-saves-new-yorkers-money/

  • qet

    Exhortations to virtue and duty are fine. The establishment of a vast new federal program and the entrenching of multiple political constituencies and bureaucratic apparatuses of that program is about as wrong a thing to do as there could be. Prioritizing the ACA and reallocating existing funding from social security, Medicare, the military, agribusiness, etc. to the new health care program would be perfectly acceptable. Simply adding a new behemoth program onto a mountain of already existing behemoth programs is dereliction, not discharge, of duty.

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