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Chaos and Collusion
Carter Page, Useful Idiot

The demonization of Carter Page highlights the most alarming aspect of our recent domestic political turmoil—a disturbing conviction that basic standards of truth or fairness must not be allowed to deflect from the paramount objective of toppling Trump.

Published on: February 13, 2018
Kirk Bennett is a retired Foreign Service Officer who spent most of his career working on Russia and the former Soviet space.
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  • SeaAyeA

    This whole nonsense has been a blessing. This is the type of MSM-establishment-Deep State collusion that the youngest of millennials and perhaps the oldest of Gen Z need to see. Younger friends and relatives do not remember or simply weren’t even alive to see the alphabet soup networks collude with neocons in both parties and the CIA to misrepresent facts, and even outright lie, to start the Iraq war.

    How many times did I see people who are supposed to be smart say “saddam. 9/11. Nukes. WMDs. Yellow cake.” In the same sentences, and on the MSM. Yeah real hard hitting journalism. Stenographers for the establishment. Over and over and over again they said those things in the same line. Lies. Lies and more lies.

    It’s good for the younger kids to see this. The internet is alight with their comments and YouTube videos these days poking fun at the MSM, with it’s literally dying off audience. We’ve got Clintons taking Russian money. We’ve got an ex BRITISH spy with PAID RUSSIAN sources for a nonsense dossier, and he wasn’t working for trump. We’ve got high level FBI and possibly CIA malfeasance and corruption.

    Every generation needs to see an example of this kind of government rot and corruption. They need to see that the founders knew what they were talking about when they wrote of enemies both foreign and domestic.

    • TPAJAX

      This is a perfect example why the MSM is dying. Lies and misrepresentations, as you say. Read the headline of this totally unsubstantiated garbage. They provide literally zero evidence for the claim, and then go down to the sixth paragraph/sentence in their bizarre format and it explicitly tells you there’s no evidence that anything actually happened even if their claim is simply granted as true! Jesus man.

      Knowing that most people just read the headline and perhaps the first sentence, they try to mislead the greater audience, but they still have to admit the reality. Nothing happened. Oh, and they didn’t even provide any evidence that Russians or anybody penetrated anything in the first place!

      I so wish that I could visit the Mr. Maddow conspiracy theory show on MSNBC garbage. This is the kind of nonsense that she pulls on a daily basis. I’d dissect her lies and nonsense in seconds. Shes supposed to be smart, too. Shes supposedly a Rhodes Scholar. OK. I guess it’s meaningless to be a “Rhodes Scholar”. At least we’ve found that out.
      https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/russians-penetrated-u-s-voter-systems-says-top-u-s-n845721?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

      • SeaAyeA

        Haha too funny. Good find. But yeah the number of fake articles like that are legion. What it boils down to is CIA and FBI and Clinton operatives, like Cody Shearer, were working with foreigners, including Russians, to dig up dirt on trump. They paid these people, so of course they just made up nonsense and took the cash. Can’t even blame them for that. But the damage done to the DNC and the FBI and CIA is pretty bad.

        So far it looks like everyone other than trump is dirty. Clintons are filthy. Manafort. Flynn. Everywhere. The swamp is real. And Manafort was doing shady money moving like 5 years ago with Tony Podesta, yeah that’s John Podestas brother. You need a Venn diagram for the corruption.

        • D4x

          So, why is this still dominating newsAnalysis? I stopped even scanning headlines in 2016, just a repeat of DNC talking points. Starting reading English language foreign news sources months ago, and even stopped unmasking the deceptive distractions of punditry in 2018. Sometimes my comment is to beg the writer for someone to stop reacting to the latest outrage and change the story to something real, something worth discussing. Must be a brainvirus transmitted by water coolers at think tanks.

          Still nice to skip to the comments here, but, it was so much better when I thought it worth time to actually read the credentialed-class. Really miss starting my day reading a newspaper, my side of the Looking Glass.

        • Rightway

          I would exclude Flynn from the list. He was bushwhacked in an undeclared official interview with Strzok, who claimed he lied in response to a question about his telephone conversation with the Russian ambassador (which the NSA already had intercepted and taped). There was no authorized investigation of Flynn at the time, Flynn was not informed that it was an official interview and that he had a right to counsel, and the WH Legal Counsel was never advised beforehand or afterwards, learning of it only when Comey’s boys leaked it to WaPo.
          Strzok broke every FBI procedural protocol, and absent any witnesses at the interview to defend Flynn, we have only the word of a lawless, corrupt, deceitful agent, and the two other agents he brought along to swear to his duplicitous 302 notes.
          Comey testified under oath to Congress that he did not believe that Flynn lied.
          Flynn, with over $1-million in legal bills and Mueller’s threats to go after Flynn’s son for not registering as an agent for a foreign country for their work with Turkey, took a guilty plea.
          Mueller and his clown brigade should be in Leavenworth

  • QET

    It’s hardly a secret that, for a broad swath of the U.S. political classes and the American press, the removal of Trump has become the Holy Grail, the goal to which all other things must be subordinated.

    Well said. I am in my 6th decade and this phenomenon represents a quantum leap from the usual “Republicans are Hitler” cant I have endured since the Reagan Administration (I was not a precocious youth and didn’t pay attention, so I can’t say whether this kind of statement was true of Nixon, but my sense is that it wasn’t). My own support for Trump was rather tepid until the outpourings of insanity and prevarication from both the Left and, more significantly, from the establishment Right during Campaign ’16 and afterwards. I already knew the progressive Left and its capture of the federal government were the most dangerous threat this republic has ever faced, but even I have been stunned and alarmed to discover the extent of the rot.

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  • Tom

    Why anyone was under the impression that the people snagged by Mueller’s investigation were anything more than venal crooks and clueless morons is beyond me.

    • Rightway

      Flynn wasn’t snagged by Mueller. Strzok conducted an official interview of Flynn without telling him it was an official interview and claimed Flynn lied. The interview was conducted even though no official investigation had been opened or authorized. It was a pure trap.
      I guess Strzok can also arrest his auto repairman, plumber, and car salesman when they lie to him too?

    • Johnathan Swift Jr.

      Perhaps for the same reason that countless cases brought by the F.B.I. and the Department of Justice were thrown out on appeal. In fact, Andrew Weissman, one of Mueller’s “dream Team” of Democratic lawyers and political donors is perhaps the worst single prosecutor in American history. Most of his major cases, including the Arthur Anderson case (which threw thousands of people out of work) were reversed on appeal. He and a number of other lawyers have a history of hiding exculpatory evidence. The D.O.J. prosecuted Senator Ted Stevens of Alaska and convicted him based on tainted evidence. That case flipped the Senate (which was the whole point of the prosecution) and was then tossed out on appeal due to massive misconduct on the part of the D.O.J. attorneys, one of whom was sleeping with the star witness and who helped hide evidence that the accused was innocent.

      We have a system of justice, not a system of rubber stamps and countless bad cases are brought up each year. Not everyone accused is guilty, nor is everyone who is convicted guilty, nor everyone who pleads guilty. Countless white collar criminals plead guilty to a lesser crime in order to avoid being made penniless. The state has almost unlimited resources, while the individual does not.

      General Flynn may well have pled to a lesser crime in order to avoid the tremendous legal costs or in his case to stop the state from going after his son. His sentence hearing has been curiously been postponed at the behest of the special prosecutor. His judge was recused. He did not recuse himself but was recused, so there is clearly something amiss in that prosecution too. It may well be that his judge was the same judge that allowed the specious F.I.S.A. warrants because he sat on that bench, or it may well be that the agent who decided that Flynn had lied (when Comey had not) is now too tainted due to his own law breaking and bias. Or, it may be the Inspector General may recommend charges for a number of the F.B.I. and D.O.J. officials involved. By May we will see.

      Not all of us “assume” that everyone charged by the government is a venal crook or a clueless moron because not everyone is. There are miscarriages of justice all the time, which is why each case must be examined on its merits individually and that is why an appeal process exists.

      • Otis

        JSJ – Thanks for all the time and effort you put into this – your posts have been enormously informative, and I for one appreciate them!

  • HA

    The FBI and DOJ used Page as a patsy to get at Trump. They lied to the FISA court in order to get the warrant against him as a vehicle to spy on the Trump campaign on behalf of the Clinton campaign.

    Page is going to be a very rich man after this settles. And if we still enjoy the Rule of Law in this country, then members of Obama’s FBI and DOJ will be prosecuted and imprisoned.

    • CapitalistRoader

      The Nation proposes immunity from criminal prosecution:

      Listening almost daily to the legion of former US intel officers condemn Russiagate skeptics ever more loudly and persistently in the media, we may wonder if they are increasingly fearful it will become known that Russiagate was mostly Intelgate. For that we will need a new bipartisan Senate Church Committee of the 1970s, which investigated and exposed misdeeds by US intelligence agencies and which led to important reforms that are no longer the preventive measures against abuses of power they were intended to be. (Ideally, everyone involved would be granted amnesty for recent misdeeds, ending all talk of “jail time,” on the condition they now testify truthfully.) But such an inclusive investigation of Intelgate would require the support of Democratic members of Congress, which no longer seems possible.
      Russiagate or Intelgate?, Stephen F. Cohen, 7 February ’18

      Just the fact that a prominent left-wing outlet is acknowledging this massive corruption is news in itself. But stretched out prosecutions/convictions/pardons instead of “amnesty” will give Trump two terms. No need to let the sleazeballs off the hook too soon.

      • Angel Martin

        I think the Deep State might have just floated a trial balloon for their “terms”.

        I don’t think Trump is going to accept.

  • DrDean

    Forget “democrat” and “republican”. The two operative sociopolitical forces at work today in America are Americanism (Capitalist American-Constitutionalism) and Authoritarian-Collectivism (Marxist/Maoist communism-socialism). America as a nation based upon our founding principles, virtues, values and beliefs (summed up best as “individual liberty”) is the target of an outright war by the Authoritarians from both of the Potemkin parties in the form of leftists/liberals/progressives and RINOs/nevertrumps who share much of the same globalist-borderless goals for America.

  • ohio granny

    Carter Page was either an FBI plant or is a useful idiot. Mast likely a plant as an excuse to obtain a FISA warrant to spy on the Trump campaign.

    • Rightway

      Bingo. Page was a paid undercover informant for the FBI since 2013. And he gave testimony in a FBI case against a Russian mobster in a money laundering case.

      • Johnathan Swift Jr.

        That’s another shocker. He helps the bureau convict a Russian agent and then the next thing you know they claim he is a Russian agent, knowing all along he was not. Those warrants are signed under threat of perjury.

  • Rightway

    I believe I recall reading that Page was working as an informant WITH THE FBI. He voluntarily passed along tidbits of information he learned in his travels to Russia and that he gave testimony against a Russian to the FBI in 2013 regarding a money laundering criminal investigation. Also, that the FBI considered him as their undercover informant and paid him $50,000.
    How in the world does this jive with the rubbish that Harding is spewing?
    Better yet, how could the FBI request a FISA warrant to spy on someone they knew well and who had worked with them for years?
    And I’m sure the FISA warrant application never disclosed the FBI’s relationship with Page.
    It was never about Page. He was just a tool to spy on anyone he came in contact with and the entire Trump campaign.

    • bff426

      Page was interviewed by two FBI agents in 2013 in an investigation of Russian attempts to gather information from Americans in New York. Two of the Russians involved were diplomats, a third did not have diplomatic cover, working for a Russian bank. He was arrested, while the other two left the country. The FBI reported that Page cooperated fully. He was not paid. That was the extent of the investigation. The arrest warrant affidavit filed by one of the two FBI agents Detailing the contacts they had with Americans can be found online. Page is “Male-1”. There were a half-dozen Americans mentioned in the arrest warrant. None were suspected of anything.

  • rel0627

    Who was page talking to on the warrants? How many times were the warrants extended? Dont you need to prove that quality intelligence was gathered to keep renewing them?

    • Johnathan Swift Jr.

      Yes, they do, but from what we know, nothing seems to have been added. If it was it would have been leaked of course. But from the Senate and House investigations it seems like the phony dossier was the crux of the warrants from beginning to end, presumably in addition to innocuous information like the fact that he did business in Russia (like thousands of others). Thus far the only things from the pastiche known as the “Steele Dossier” that “check out” are things that are or were already public information. In spite of the Democrats and their donors spending untold money and Buzz Feed doing the same thing to stave off bankruptcy when the suits are finished, none of the outrageous charges have been found to have a shred of truth to them, after a year and a half spent trying to verify them.

      • rel0627

        I dont think anything needs to be added if the warrants were working. How do you know all of the dossier was not verified? And No Comey did not say “all of the dossier is fake”.

        • Johnathan Swift Jr.

          I never claimed that Comey claimed that “all of the dossier is fake.” I have never heard of someone putting in quotes something another person never claimed. That is a special kind of stupid.

          As far as the dossier, anyone can make one on you or I or anyone else and then tell you to disprove a bunch of wild allegations, its pretty easy.

          In the real world, none of the outrageous allegations in the DNC-Fusion-Shearer-Ohr-Steele “dossier” have been proven to have any veracity whatsoever. The only things that check out are things that are public information, things like the fact that Trump had been to Russia and that Carter Page was a businessman who did business in Russia.

          Any intelligence file is judged to be worthwhile when the items that are in it that are not public information are verified. Under oath Christopher Steele, who assembled part of it could not point to any of the salacious and suspicious details that could be verified. Not one of them. None. Zero. Nada. He was forced to describe it under oath as “raw intelligence” that had to be researched. Under oath he was forced to undermine the “dossier” he had peddled to the press and the bureau and of course he failed to show up for his deposition where he would have had to answer hundreds of questions about who contributed what to the dossier and who his real sources were – reliable agents like Cody Shearer and Grassy Knoll Bluementhal – which he can’t do without revealing all. The author of this work of “raw intelligence” won’t answer questions under oath. That tells you all you need to know about his veracity and the quality of the “dossier.”

          And if you know anything about the Soviet and the Russia security services, it is that they have data on their targets. If they trap a businessman in a “honey trap,” they have the names of the prostitute or agent, the day, date and time as well as photographic evidence. They ensnared countless American military and embassy personnel in such traps over the decades. That is why this is all such silly wishcasting. The media who wanted to stop Trump did not bite on any of this garbage because they knew they would get sued and its origins exposed and of course because they knew it was rotten. The fact that anyone at all is credulous shows you the power of confirmation bias.

          A real intelligence file includes much more actual data, who, what, where and when something happened and when those things check out, then you have something approaching intelligence. In this case, the one thing that was specific regarding Trump and his team was the accusation that his personal attorney went to Prague. That of course was wrong, 100% wrong and once those type of errors are found, neither the bureau nor anyone else can cite it as evidence without including the fact that it was found to be wrong in the application.

          And F.I.S.A. warrants are only to include verified facts, not the pastiche of rumor, innuendo and fantasy that the Fusion product included, all based on the claim that its “author” has been reliable in the past. None of what was included was even first hand information, none of it was intelligence because it was all hearsay.

          • rel0627

            Are you in the doj? Ever been in a fisa court?

          • Johnathan Swift Jr.

            It’s not a F.I.S.A. court but the F.I.S.C., the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. It is charged to spy on non-citizens or in rare cases Americans who the D.O.J. alleges are actually foreign spies actively working for a foreign government or Americans who are actually plotting terrorism. Not hanging around with the wrong people or committing some other crime, but actually spying or planning terrorism. Thus the bar was designed to be incredibly high for a warrant.

            Of course, IF Carter Page had been a foreign spy he would have been arrested long ago, but in reality he was in fact a patriotic American who helped the Bureau convict a real Russian spy in 2013. Carter Page was an unpaid advisor to the Trump campaign, a member of an advisory board, an advisory board, an advisory board…that met…once. That’s it, that’s his involvement with all things Trump and Trumpian. Then his minimal role as a peripheral figure in Trumpland ended in September, 2016….a month before we know the first warrant was approved to spy on Page and his “associates” and “circle.” Thus any spying on Trump was illegal from the start because Page was no longer involved with him, not to mention the three renewals.

            And F.I.S.C. warrants are subject to what are known internally as “Woods Procedures.” Woods Procedures were named for Michael Woods, the FBI official who drafted the rules as head of the Office of General Counsel’s National Security Law Unit. They were instituted in April 2001 to ‘ensure accuracy with regard to … the facts supporting probable cause’ after recurring instances, presumably inadvertent, in which the FBI had presented inaccurate information to the FISA court. Additionally, if there is any evidence that paints the “evidence” provided to the F.I.S.C. in a different light – for example the dossier author being terminated from his Bureau contract as Steele was for lying to them – then the court must be notified immediately of the change in circumstances as the judge may wish to terminate the warrant. The bureau never did which is another fraud upon the court.

            There were other reforms made in 2003 to insure that all “evidence” provided to the court is well documented and credible and of course as we know the Steele-Clinton-Bluemthal-Shearer-Ohr-Simpson-Fusion pastiche was anything but credible because no one in the media would even touch it with a ten foot pole. If the media smelled a rat, then so should have the bureau and the court itself. The whole process used in obtaining a warrant on Page and his associates was fraudulent from the start, all based on completely unverified anonymous claims with third hand sourcing at best. This type of tosh is not “evidence” in any legitimate court and a warrant resulting from any of this anonymous tripe is fraudulent.

          • rel0627

            Who told you all this?

          • Johnathan Swift Jr.

            It’s all public information.

          • rel0627

            So you came up with it yourself? Do you work in law or federal investigations?

          • Johnathan Swift Jr.

            I am retired, a retired private citizen.

          • rel0627

            So that is no you didnt work in law?

          • Fred

            I have a PhD in literature, but I know nothing about Shakespeare because I’m not an Elizabethan playwright? I know nothing about Beowulf because I’m not an Anglo Saxon scop? It is painfully obvious that you’re a troll. I’m surprised JSJ has responded to you as much as he has.

          • rel0627

            So that is no you dont work in law or federal investigations.

          • Johnathan Swift Jr.

            Yes indeed, time wasted, thoughts collected, but time wasted answering a garden variety homeless troll. These boards often have thoughtful, articulate commenters, but not in this case.

          • Fred

            Yeah, if rel0627 were serious instead of a troll, he could simply use Google to check all that out. In any case, your time was not entirely wasted. I for one found your comments interesting and informative.

          • Dale Fayda

            Not wasted at all. I enjoyed reading your responses to that dingus. Probably the best summation of this fiasco I’ve ever read.

            Your efforts are very much appreciated.

          • rel0627

            How do you know what a real intelligence file contains?

          • Johnathan Swift Jr.

            Because one of my close friends retired from a foreign intelligence agency and my aunt spent a lifetime at an American agency. Domestic intelligence agencies can deal in supposition and speculation when it comes to foreigners, following and tracking them when it comes to hunches, which is how for example OBL was hunted down after a decade of work by hundreds of agents and analysts. However, when it comes to American citizens, we still have our Fourth Amendment rights against illegal search and seizure. So in order to get a warrant in F.I.S.C. the bureau and the D.O.J. officials who sign off on the warrants are supposed to pass a strict internal review of all the relevant evidence.

            Any claims made must be verified and of course as we know from #000 Steele’s sworn civil court interrogatory none of “his” dossier’s information was verified. The same information he attempted to sell to the New York Times, Washington Post and countless other members of the media as “fact” became unverified “raw intelligence” when he had to give sworn testimony, thus the whole dossier is no better than toilet paper when it comes to a civil court, let alone a F.I.S.A. warrant.

            If memory serves, there is also the small matter of a Supreme Court decision that made it illegal to use anonymous second hand claims in warrants in the United States, because after all, how difficult would it be for any police officer – local, state or federal – to swear that he has a C.I. who swore that someone sold someone else that you were committing a crime? Not difficult right? Steele claimed that someone in Russia told someone else in Russia who told him that Trump played pee pee on Obama’s bed. Steele claimed that someone in Russia told someone else in Russia who told him that Carter Page was going to get a huge share of an oil company when Trump singlehandedly withdrew the sanctioned. This is the “evidence” that was given in large part or perhaps totally to obtain a rare F.I.S.A. warrant.

          • rel0627

            So they were deep staters. Lol

          • Johnathan Swift Jr.

            The problem of a permanent bureaucracy, one that grows so large and so deep that it begins to see itself as an independent body, independent of Constitutionally mandated oversight, independent of the Executive they are compelled to obey has been a threat to our liberty and our freedom for a long while. James Burnham began writing about this in the 1940s, in the wake of the New Deal.

            You can see how real this problem is by the Bureau and the D.O.J.’s refusal to provide documents to Congress, something they simply cannot do in our Constitutional system. These agencies work for the people and they answer to them in the form of answering to Congress. You could see it in Director Wray’s testimony just yesterday, the way he answers questions. He believes that he works for an independent body, not for the Executive Branch, whose leaders can tell him exactly what he wants done, then he must answer questions and submit to oversight by the second branch, Congress, he has no choices but to provide them their documents and answer them their questions.

            The idea of a permanent bureaucracy that works to protect itself first and foremost and in this case to collude with a political party in order to do a false investigation of one party’s candidate while it helps her create a false narrative of the other is a turning point in American history. It isn’t a laughing matter, that’s the type of thing that marks a commentator as a troll rather than a serious person.

          • rel0627

            So you dont like having the same county clerk at her job for 30 years?

          • Johnathan Swift Jr.

            That’s a strange and immaterial take on my post. Civil service was instituted in the 1880s under Grover Cleveland as a needed reform over the patronage system. The problem comes from when the public employees were allowed to form unions, to negotiate and unionize, something that was illogical and something F.D.R. himself opposed. The idea that so many government employees believe they are the people’s masters, not their servants is the problem, one that can been seen in high relief in the I.R.S. scandal.

          • rel0627

            How do you know how people you dont know perceive their job as?

          • Johnathan Swift Jr.

            By their attitude and the testimony we see from government officials when they are questioned under oath. We had thousands and thousands of e-mails exchanged between the conspirators in the I.R.S. scandal alone to read, all of which revealed their attitude. Have a nice life.

          • rel0627

            So you take some and apply to the total?

          • rel0627

            Sorry, im not into the government conspiracy theories but hey have at it.

          • Johnathan Swift Jr.

            It’s all simply fact. The Bureau handled the Clinton “Investigation” as a “Headquarters Special,” which we know from the texts that have been released. They took the case away from the New York office (all Bureau cases are handled by the area office) and they handled it on the 7th Floor in the District. That is fact, not conjecture. They did this to control and supervise the case with a few selected agents and officers,

            It was a sham investigation as the former F.B.I. Assistant Director James Karlstrom and other Assistant Directors has said again and again. No grand jury was ever called to hear evidence, no normal investigative techniques were used, pitting one miscreant against another, major figures were given immunity and the state got nothing in return, no testimony at all, there was never a warrant issued for her server and all the phones and a seizure of evidence never took place. The Bureau actually allowed the suspects to destroy evidence by agreement and finally, the conclusion not to prosecute was made and a statement was crafted months BEFORE all the evidence was collected and the major suspects were even interviewed, then interviewed without being taped or even notes being taken.

            The Clinton server investigation was a sham from beginning to end. Then of course all of the “evidence” to create the Russian collusion caper originated with the Clinton Campaign. Fusion was paid through a law firm as a cutout and not included in campaign expenses and reporting – which is illegal by the way.

            Then, through Fusion Clinton paid a foreign agent (Steele) to either create or report dirt on Mr. Trump, which is also illegal. This was all hidden by Mrs. Clinton and denied by her campaign for months. All of the evidence that we know generated the illegal F.I.S.A. warrants originated with the Clinton campaign, the whole assemblage of public information and third hand sleaze known as the “Steele Dossier” originated as a Clinton opposition research project, something that should have been made crystal clear to the court and something the Bureau and the F.B.I. was legally compelled to do as it was more than material.

            The drive by a small number of high officials of the Bureau and the D.O.J. to let Mrs. Clinton off with a verbal hand slap while at the same time it created the Russian Collusion narrative using “evidence” provided by her campaign is a fact, not a theory. All this will become more clear as the Inspector General’s Report comes out. He was not allowed to even have the oversight he is mandated to perform by the Lynch D.O.J. which through the figure of Sally Yates did not allow him to investigate the Counterintelligence bureau. Again, this is a fact, not conjecture as the I.G. has testified to under oath. He has been investigating the mishandling of the Clinton “Investigation” for the past year and a report is due soon. This is why countless officials of the D.O.J. and the Bureau are retiring, have been demoted or have quit. Carlin quit right after the first F.I.S.A. warrant.

          • rel0627

            Sorry buddy., but hey have at it.

          • Johnathan Swift Jr.

            Refute it “buddy,” refute it. Try to explain it away.

          • rel0627

            its your opinion. You believe in govt conspiracy theories, I dont sorry.

          • Johnathan Swift Jr.

            No, everything I stated is fact, not opinion and if you don’t understand the difference, they of course it is a waste of time even exchanging posts, so have a nice life. You can’t refute any of the facts so you dismiss them as opinion, so what’s the point? Cheers.

          • rel0627

            If you cite your facts then ill take a look. Facts arent facts based on “I say so thats why”. Pretend it is a college course where the professor ask for citations and bibliography.

          • Johnathan Swift Jr.

            Its all public information. And this is an internet board not a college course and you are not an instructor but a troll.

          • rel0627

            Well it shouldnt be that hard in 2018 to hyperlink. Ask your grandkids if you dont know how to copy and paste links. At least use quotation marks if the words are not yours.

          • rel0627

            Right so the “i dern say so” is bullshit.

    • AnonymoussSoldier

      Nope. FISA is largely nonsense and FISC is a rubber stamp factory. This case has cleared that up for anyone with doubt. If FISA was such a great idea and working so well then so much US tech wouldn’t be stolen. FISA was designed for abuse. Also, Clintons were involved and they are above the law, just in case you didn’t know.

      • Johnathan Swift Jr.

        Judge Walton cited widespread abuse of the F.I.S.A. process. He was the presiding judge. There is no guessing it has been ill used by the Bureau, it was a court finding.

      • rel0627

        You work in the doj?

        • AnonymoussSoldier

          Are you jokin’? I’m actually a productive and reasonably intelligent person, thank you, who has held a private sector job, ie a productive job, my entire life. Started stocking shelves, and now I have my own business. Frankly, your question insults me on two levels: First, that you think I’m of such low value as to work at DOJ. Second, your implying that if I worked at DOJ then I’d have a different view? Oh, I’m sure I would, but then again I’d also be corrupt and my IQ would fall down out of the triple digits. Sheesh

          • rel0627

            So whered you get your info?

          • AnonymoussSoldier

            Originally from a balanced dose of warfarin aka MSM and some other sites, but by now about 30 different sources after my interest peaked. I should say that my interest peaked considerably after I learned of Steele last year, a foreigner and ex-intel of a foreign state who claimed to have paid Russians on hand, and how he was so instrumental. I guess we don’t want foreigners interfering in elections unless you live in Clintonia and they’re your foreigners doing your meddling. Now, why don’t we simply skip the merry-go-round and you can just tell me who should be doing my thinking for me, master.

          • rel0627

            Master? Ok buddy.

          • Micah718

            I started cleaning bathrooms in Burger King. That gig lasted about a week, before I said [email protected] it and started bagging groceries for tips at local KeyFood. Brooklyn in the early 1990’s was a place you could make a above minimum wage doing that as a kid.

        • Unelected Leader

          Their opinions are only relevant if they are not in the DOJ. The DOJ and FISCs are in question.

          • rel0627

            Says whom?

          • Unelected Leader

            Says any civil libertarian, like me, concerned with the very high volume of what always appeared to be rubber stamping going on in the FISC generally, and especially now that a foreign intel agent with supposed Russian sources can craft something that is used to get one of those rubber stamps. Need a special counsel for this one. Can’t let the DOJ investigate itself.

          • rel0627

            Are you trusting nunes for that analysis?

          • Johnathan Swift Jr.

            No, actually Judge Reggie Walton, who headed the F.I.S.C. has issued an opinion about abuse in the process and of course the Senate issued a much more detailed memo on the same matters as Rep. Nunes just days ago. There is a 99 page public document available as a PDF from the F.I.S.C. on abuse that is available as a free download. It even cites illegal searches made for and by third party contractors. It’s quite revelatory if you are actually interested in the truth rather than trolling. Good day.

          • rel0627

            Good dont trust nunes. So do you think every fisa warrant is done incorrectly?

          • rel0627

            In the wake of the Guardian’s revelations, Reggie Walton, presiding judge of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (Fisa), said claims that the body was unduly acquiescent to the government’s requests for surveillance orders were “absolutely false”.

          • rel0627
          • Unelected Leader

            No, more of a distrust for Comey who certainly knew about it and it’s use, however important or unimportant, in FISA renewals, and on the other hand call that salacious and largely unfounded. Hmm. But is there a reason why I shouldn’t trust Nunes? Certainly partisanship can’t be sufficient because the whole claim is that it could be partisan actors in the DOJ misusing the system. We’re going to need something more. That’s why we need a special counsel.

          • rel0627

            Comey had nothing to do with the fisa warrant on page. Nunes cried wolf last year on the trump tower was wiretapped, remember?

          • CheckYourself

            Director of FBI knows about FISA warrants. Only a handful of people in the country can sign off on them to send them to a judge, and the director of FBI is one of them. But I’ll buy it, I do believe Comey was massively inept and incompetent.

          • rel0627

            Lots of people know about them, that doestn mean they actually work on them. So you buying nunes got busted working with the wh last time on his crying wolf? He wont answer if his lackeys worked with the wh this time.

          • CheckYourself

            I’m so happy this all happened. Here we are more than one year after the fact and I know more about Hillary Clinton-DNC-Russian collusion than anything else lol. Go figure with given Uranium One and bubba bill taking money from Russian banks too. I guess British collusion too because Steele is British.

            I think the saddest thing is that the guy doesn’t even seem to have Russian sources. He didn’t meet with any of these sources he claimed to have, but of course it would still be problematic even if he did because they are Russian and they are paid lol! Man, oh man.

      • rel0627

        But who was page talking to? How many times were the warrants extended?

  • Gary Hemminger

    This article just made my all time top 10 list on TAI. Well stated. And I also did not vote for Trump (nor Hillary)…I didn’t bother filling in a vote for president at all (in fact what is the point if you live in CA). I can call with 100% accuracy the next CA state results for the 2020 election right now (and probably another 30 states as well).

    But the ridiculousness of the Trump derangement syndrome folks is just sad. And the virtue signaling they give to one another at every moment to show that they have TDS is even sadder.

    Wanting to build great walls and deport all illegals is certainly not the path to immigration reform. But then again, neither is open borders and sanctuary cities. Both sides have gone mad, but I think the far left has gone madder. Nothing shows the massive changes in the democratic party more than this video of Bill Clinton. Watch it and ask yourself, what happened to the Democratic party (don’t get me wrong, the Republicans are pretty whacko too, but the Democrats are living out their utopian, green fanstasy land dreams right now).

    https://www2.bing.com/videos/search?q=video+of+bill+clinton+on+illegal+immigration&view=detail&mid=DAFF67C69E76902EE329DAFF67C69E76902EE329&FORM=VIRE

  • derf

    Didn’t Page also work with the FBI after they approached him a few years ago? And that he helped expose some Russian spies?

    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/chrisreeves/2018/02/05/doj-documents-show-carter-page-helped-fbi-catch-russian-spies-n2444651

    • Johnathan Swift Jr.

      Yes indeed he did. That should have been part of such an article and of course included been included in the warrant. The normal procedure when a person like Page who was an asset to the Bureau shows up in another investigation is to call his handler, the person who worked with him on the earlier case, to see what he knows and whether he things Page could have been a Russian agent. I doubt that this was done because this case was handled by a select team of conspirators who knew the idea that claiming Page was a Russian asset were preposterous. A simple read of the preposterous “dossier” should have revealed to any judge that the real target was Trump and his campaign, not Page. The “evidence” given was specious, third hand information all anonymously sourced and without any verifiable detail that was not in the public domain. Thus the judge who approved it has to be highly partisan or incompetent or perhaps both. There is no intelligence in the intelligence dossier which Steele says under oath was “raw” and “unverified” intelligence, thus 100% worthless when it comes to a F.I.S.C. warrant.

      • rel0627

        “I doubt” are you arm chair quarterbacking?

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