MAHMUD HAMS/AFP/Getty Images
The Middle East
Do the Palestinians Really Want Their Own State?

The answer has to be: no, not really. They could have had a state 80 years ago, and then again and again. They kept saying no.

Published on: January 4, 2018
Josef Joffe is an executive board member of TAI and fellow of the Hoover Institution at Stanford.
show comments
  • three_chord_sloth

    It is time to stop dancing around the problem. At its core, the problem is Islam.

    The concept of “Dar al Islam” is the problem. It must go.
    The belief that Islam will subsume and replace all other religions sits behind and justifies the concept of Dar al Islam. It must go.
    The mincing appeasement of “Muslim sensibilities by the feckless castrati we call Western elites throws gasoline on all of this. It must go.

    It used to be we aimed for a bright future for mankind… believed in better days to come. Now, we only bow and scrap before the medieval amongst us, as rights and freedom circle the bowl.

    • Tom

      Eh. The problem with Islam isn’t that it wants to subsume and replace all other religions. The problem is that it has no problem with doing so violently.

      • Almost all religions have committed atrocities in the past. But Islam stands out in that its followers for the most part stubbornly refuse to reform and adapt to the modern day and age.

        • Kayla

          Goo-g-le is paying $97 pe-r- hour,w-i-th week-l-y payouts.Y-o-u can also a-v-ail this.
          On tuesday I got a brand new Land Rover Ra-n-ge Rover from having earned $11752 this last four weeks..wi-t-h-out any dou-b-t it’s the most-comfortable job I have ever done .. It sou-n-ds unbelievable but you wont forgive yourself if y-o-u don’t check it
          !gz168d:
          ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
          ➤➤➤ http://GoogleAutoFinanceReportsOnline/online/easytasks ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥:::::!gz168lhuhuh

        • Barbara

          Goo-g-le is payi-n-g $97 per hour,wi-t-h weekly p-a-youts.You can also av-a-il this.
          O-n t-u-esday I got a brand new Land Rover Range Rover from having earned $11752 this last four weeks..w-i-th-out any doubt it’s the most-comfort-a-ble job I have ever done .. It sounds unbelievable but you wont forgive yourse-l-f if you don’t check it
          !gx143d:
          ♥L♥I♥M♥D♥T♥V♥W♥C♥Q♥X♥I♥Q♥L♥P♥E♥W♥I♥W♥J♥Y♥U♥I♥B♥I♥K♥S♥Y♥I♥I♥A♥L♥T
          >>>> http://GoogleOnlineInternationalEasyTechJobsOpportunities/easy/jobs ♥L♥I♥M♥D♥T♥V♥W♥C♥Q♥X♥I♥Q♥L♥P♥E♥W♥I♥W♥J♥Y♥U♥I♥B♥I♥K♥S♥Y♥I♥I♥A♥L♥T:::::!gx143lhuhuh

        • Colleen

          G-o-ogle is p-a-ying $97 per hour,w-i-th week-l-y payouts.You can also av-a-il this.
          On tuesday I got a brand new Land Rover Ra-n-ge Rover from having earned $11752 this last four weeks..w-i-th-out any d-o-ubt it’s the most-comfortable job I have ever done .. It soun-d-s unbelievable but you wont forgive yourself i-f- you don’t check it
          !gc200d:
          >>>> http://GoogleLegitimateFishJobsFromHomeJobs/get/hourly ♥♥♥P♥♥♥I♥♥♥I♥♥♥Q♥♥♥D♥♥♥H♥♥♥J♥♥♥L♥♥♥U♥♥♥I♥♥♥H♥♥♥V♥♥♥D♥♥♥D♥♥♥P♥♥♥D♥♥♥K:::::!gc200lhuhuh

      • Marathon-Youth

        All three Abrahamic faiths have that sense of intolerance. Judaism, Christianity and Islam differ from each other only in degrees. None are free of intolerance towards other faiths.

        • Micah718

          Nevertheless, it appears we have the problem of Jewish and Christian suicide bombers pretty well under control.

          • Panchatrantra

            Not in the least. The Tamil Tigers perfected the Suicide bomber to the Suicide Vest. These guys look so amateurish compared to the Tamil Tigers.

          • Micah718

            Provide fatalist statistics over Muslim suicide killers and other religions over the past, let’s say, 10 years. Thanks.

          • Panchatrantra

            The Tamil Tigers taught the Muslim terrorists how to terrorize. They were the best. The Tamil Tigers were the only terrorist group to have a navy and an air force. Whose cadres wore a necklace with a cyanide pill attached to it in case of capture. they had thousands of child soldiers that also included child suicide bombers. they were the only terrorist group to kill 2 leaders of 2 nations (Ranasingha Premadase of Sri Lanka and Rajiv Gandhi of India). They were highly organized with a functioning government (police, post office, TV, media, etc). At the end in 2009 they herded a human shield of 500 thousand men women and children between them and the Sri Lankan military.
            During and after that 28 odd year war various Islamic terrorists groups sought their training.

          • Micah718

            I’m pretty sure Muslims knew how to terrorize before. But continue to defend them. It’s not like people need a safe zone from Muslims in places like Europe. Oh wait, they do!

          • Panchatrantra

            I am talking of the suicide bomber.

          • Micah718

            And I’m talking about Muslim terrorism.

          • Panchatrantra

            Fine. then we have nothing more to say. but if Muslim terrorism includes suicide bombers what I said matters.

          • Micah718

            Bye Felicia.

          • Panchatrantra

            When a Tamil Tiger took out Rajiv Gandhi the explosion was so massive his head flew up 40 feet and the entire place was obliterated.

    • True, although not all Palestinians are necessarily Muslim.

    • Steve Smith

      Christianity believes the same thing–that it is meant to incorporate all of humanity. Both have a proto-Marxist ideological caste to them, as does the “democratism” we have adopted to spread a “freedom agenda” in the Middle East and elsewhere by force. Chosenist Judaism, by contrast, has a more proto-fascist bent with its rationalization of God-ordained, eliminationist genocide–“God told us to kill them all and take their land.” The establishment of the state of Israel is a quasi-secular restaging of the elimination of the Canaanites.

      Monotheism is, by its nature, intolerant. The seminal monotheistic act in the biblical narrative–Abraham’s destruction of his father’s objects of religious devotion–is an intensely intolerant act and sets the stage for all that follows.

      Islam was conceived, on a practical level, as a way to generate unity among Arabs and overcome Arab tribal warfare, but the only way to achieve this goal was to re-vector the warlike and rapacious impulses of Arab tribesmen outwards against “infidels.”
      Judaism, by contrast, promotes, rather than attempting to overcome, the tribal impulse, enshrining them in its religious dogmas.

      Christianity, whose gestation took place under a powerful sovereign empire, rather than in the world of anarchic, Semitic tribalism, is, on a theoretical level, the most peaceful of the three, and the New Testament lacks the scriptural bellicosity that characterizes both the Tanakh and the Koran. In practice though, the perceived imperative of religious unity and the impulse to impose “the truth” on the unwilling has led to high levels of religious violence within Christendom, its pacific scripture notwithstanding.

  • Psalms13626

    With Syria being partitioned, a chunk of Syria seems to be the obvious answer.

  • Fat_Man

    If you want the Palestinians to negotiate realistically with Israel, you must cut off their multiple streams of funding from the UN, EU, and US. Do that, and they will be at the table pronto. Don’t do it. and they will sit there and make trouble from now untill the cows come home.

  • FriendlyGoat

    Virtually no one in the Palestinian territories today was an adult in 1937-1938, nor cares today what any British then thought. The fact of the matter is that if Christians had minded their own business and merely invited Jews to emigrate to the USA and assimilate in safety here, Zionism would have properly collapsed (and a lot of Jewish people might have escaped Hitler as well). The 40% of the world’s Jewish people now here have no reason or plans to go to Israel. It should be 80% with a Jewish nation skipped. Why? A nation officially based on a religion is a bone-headed idea. All of the “Islamic Republics” are bone-headed. So is a Jewish government. So is a Christian government.

    • Tom

      Meanwhile ignoring the wishes of the actual people in question, that is, the Jews themselves…good night, FG, do you ever think that you don’t know better than everyone else how they should live their lives?

      • Micah718

        No, Comrade FG is convinced that his visions are best way forward.

    • Ofer Imanuel

      I agree with you in some theoretical, detached way: religious states are not ideal, and lots of Jews would have migrated to the U.S in the 1930’s if they had the option to do so.
      Other than that, this is utter nonsense, of course. And here is why, in no particular order:

      1. (Zionist) jews started migrating to Israel since 1870’s, and by 1930’s there was already a fair number in Israel, and the Balfour declaration was 13 years old.
      2. Israel is not really a religious state. It is somewhat a secular state, and somewhat a multi-religious state (the government supports maintenance of Jewish synagogues, along Muslim mosques, and Christian churches). It has the distinction of defining anyone with Jewish origin (if your grandpa/grandma was a Jew, you qualify), as Jewish / Israeli ethnicity, and thus eligible to Israeli citizenship. This is no different than France (and Germany, Japan, others) granting french citizenship to people with french ethnicity.
      3. Israel has been an independent country for almost 70 years. Whatever the justification (or lack of, in your opinion) for its existence, most of its citizens were born there. It is the only home they know, and a pretty good one at that.
      4. As a side note, lots of the Jews in Israeli did NOT come from Eastern Europe or Russia, but rather from middle eastern countries such as Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Morocco, and Yemen.
      5. There is the good old rule of “if it ain’t broken, don’t fix it”. Israel is a developed country, with a strong army, a strong sense of nationality, and a positive birth rate. How many countries (including most of the western world) have these distinctions?

      • FriendlyGoat

        Of course (of course) I know that I am spinning a preferred alternative result which cannot now actually happen. YET, nations founded on and insisting upon political control by a particular religion are STILL nuts. Israel could have a one-state solution with the inhabitants of Israel proper plus those of its occupied territories. But the present ruling political class won’t ever do it, because they know that the religious vision of Judaism supposedly “realized” in the nation of Israel would be diluted and eventually voted away altogether.
        So, what happens instead? Constant conflict. A “conquest” or nothing mindset forever.

        • Ofer Imanuel

          Did you read the article we are commenting on? The Palestinians have been trying to kill the Jews in Israel / Palestine for 80 years (96 years if you count “unofficial” pogroms like 1921). They are so dedicated to their vision that a fair number of them are willing to commit suicide, just so they can take some Jews with them.
          The Israeli government (and the Israeli public) has to be medically insane to take in the 4+ million Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, and make them citizens. Of course, if you make it a one-state, you may have to take in some of the diaspora Palestinians as well. Israel has enough issues with its limited (~18%) Muslim-Arab Israeli population as it is, and these have never been constantly taught to hate Israel.
          Do you really want to see the blood flowing in the streets? Think Bosnia of the early 1990’s, only worse. The Bosnians were not very religious, and the level animosity was mild compared to Israelis vs. Palestinians.

          As for insistence on political control: Israel HAS to insist on the law of return, the one permitting immigration of Jews with no real pre-requisites. That is really its reason d’etre, and the holocaust proved its necessity. In a theoretical way, if Israelis were sharing the country with Americans, or for that matter Indians or Chinese, and they did not have all these unfriendly neighbors around them, it is conceivable that the need for political control wouldn’t exist. Keep in mind that countries with no real reason to feel the need for political control by the majority still show it – look up Malaysia (and its Chinese minority), or Fiji (and its Indian minority).

          Last, the Jews in America are quite happy and safe. But can you say the same thing to Jews in France and the UK? And in any case, what does that do to the Jews in Israel?

          • FriendlyGoat

            I am not against Jews as people. I am not against Muslims as people. I am not against Christians (all varieties) as people. I am against dogma which manifests in ridiculous claims “that HAVE to be revered as true” and insisted upon—–whether true or not (usually not) because of ancient writings that no one with sense can alter. A great deal of the Jewish old testament is unmitigated malarkey. Ditto the sayings of Mohammad. Ditto the endless attempts at interpretation of Christian prophecy from Revelation stewed with OT prophecy.

            So, I personally won’t be “fixing” the Middle East—–because there are too many people from three religions who are not the least interested in a “fix”—-only a “win” for their view. I do blame Christians for meddling in the creation and support of Israel for reasons such as 1) We don’t like Jews “here”, so let’s send them “there” if they’ll go, or 2) Wow, as soon as they re-create Israel then Revelation can unfold (never mind that it’s not really a Jewish thing).

            It’s going to be fight, fight, fight and hate, hate, hate over there. I’m sure, for at least the duration of my life—–past and future. Never should have happened.

          • Ofer Imanuel

            It looks to me that the middle east’s Muslims do not need the Jews for a good fight:
            Copts in Egypt are one of the minorities I feel extremely sorry for.
            Kurds in Iraq, Iran, and Turkey.
            Shia against Sunies in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Bahrain, Yemen, and Saudi Arabia.
            Punjabies against Balochis in Pakistan.

            So if the Jews were not there, the Muslims would still be busy killing each other.

            Again, in a theoretical way, if I had a really big saw, I would have sawed around Israel, along the line of the security wall, and towed it to the middle of the Atlantic ocean; or right next to Hawaii.
            As it is now, having a developed country which has to be constantly military ready is so much better than genocide.

            As for why the U.S supports Israel, all I can say is that I am grateful that it does, and that it makes my Israeli and American identities in harmony with each other.

          • Panchatrantra

            “So if the Jews were not there, the Muslims would still be busy killing each other.”
            no they wouldn’t
            The intolerance level of the ME is due to Israel.
            From the Bamiyan Buddhas to Palmyra were leveled down in the last few decades. They stood there for 2 eons without being molested.
            Coptic Christian communities to Zoroastrian communities who have lived in this region for centuries are being wiped out.
            Unable to dislodge the Jewish state all other non Muslim entities are being obliterated till there is nothing but the Jewish state in an ocean of Muslims.

          • Ofer Imanuel

            Really? How tolerant are the Muslims to Christians in Pakistan? Is Lashkar-e-Taibe also the responsibility of the Jews? How about Uigur terror in China? What about Darfur and south Sudan?

            I think that the proof is with us that Muslims are often busy fighting these around them, Jews, Christians, Hindus, or other Muslims.

          • Panchatrantra

            Not the the complete annihilation one sees in the Middle East. That I attribute to Israel
            The Islamic world lost massively to the European Colonial Empires. Both the Ottoman and Mughal Empires collapsed due to them.
            and before that especially from the 13th to the 16th century Islam rivaled Europe in world powers. One example would be the “Gunpowder Empires” of the Ottoman, Safavid and Mughal Empires. By the 20th century Europe’s colonial Empires dominated the world When they collapsed the modern western world rose (includ cold war )
            3rd issue
            Pakistan was born as a Muslim homeland and is similar to Israel in that. purging non Muslim in that theocracy is an ugly natural result.

          • Ofer Imanuel

            I agree with your interpretation of the colonial powers bringing down Islamic empires. You can add to that China. The only one who get away was Japan, due to a decisive reaction to industrialize.
            As for violent Muslim countries, I would like you to consider if perhaps the prevailing interpretation of Islam is the problem. Consider Malaysia – was not born AFAIK as a Muslim country, but it has a Muslim majority, which prosecutes Chinese. At the same region you have the Moros (Philippine Muslims) – as violent as you want. Also Sudan (Darfur and South Sudan – both mentioned before) is too far from Israel, and the Sudanese engaged not in one, but two genocides, one of them against other Muslims. And let’s not forget Boko Haram, a group as nasty as Isis.
            Bottom line: Muslims are very violent not only in the middle east. Blaming Israel for this does not make sense.

          • Marathon-Youth

            I am catching up with you 2 days later. Middle East upheaval since the end of world war 2 centers around Israel which is a product of England and France both who were also colonial powers in that region.
            Islam and the western world.
            -Sepoy Rebellion of 1857 that led to the British Empire was started by Muslim Sepoys. This rebellion came after the steady collapse of the Mughal Empire with the last Mughal Emperor being forced to lead the rebellion. It could have started world war 1 had the Sepoys won. This region today accounts for 1/3 of the Islamic world.
            -Collapse of the centuries old Ottoman Empire. That was due partly to the wars but also the machinations of England and France. (Sykes/Picot Agreement)
            -The spread of Colonial Empires across the Muslim world. To the rise of the Western world.
            Then you write of Muslim/non Muslim antagonism. If MSM did a half decent job you would read of ethnic wars across the world, Just to name some.
            Khalistan the act to create a homeland for the Sikhs. brutally crushed under Operation blue Star by Indira.
            Elam War 28 war to create a Tamil Hindu homeland in Sri Lanka
            “Nagaland for Christ” one of a group of militant Christians who want homelands.
            RSS Hindu Kar Sevak attacks on Christians some terribly including decapitation and burning (Australian missionary Graham Steines & his 2 sons immolated to death by Hindus).
            -Ethnic and caste battles claiming the lives of thousands since 1948. We just do not read them.

          • Marathon-Youth

            Here in the US I defend Confederate monuments. In South Asia all British monuments have been removed. India does not have a world war 2 memorial for her soldiers, even though thousands died, She sees them as a mercenary army who served the British.
            The India Gate one sees in New Delhi was built by the British for the soldiers who died in World war One.

          • Panchatrantra

            Islam is violently reclaiming her power around the globe. lost to Europe. but does not stop with them. Hinduism is also getting militant and there is strong chauvinism in the Buddhist world

          • Ofer Imanuel

            Fair enough. But consider who is the other side in all these scuffles – Muslims, right? As for power lost, that’s true to a limited amount. It is more a strong aversion to violence, not the inability to inflict it. For example, take off the political shackles of the American military, and it would wipe the floor with its Islamic opponents.

          • Panchatrantra

            Also South Asia is a world unto itself. 550 million Muslims of the world’s 1.5 billion are in S. Asia. Compare that to the ME which is around 250 million in total

          • FriendlyGoat

            I’m glad you—-in fantasy, anyway—–support the idea that Israel would have been better off situated somewhere other than in the midst of the world of Islam which hates it. That is my take, as well. The PROBLEM, as you know, is that Zionism does not and CANNOT (because of the old writings) support it anywhere else. As for America, we have more Christians in this country expecting “end times events” any minute than there are Jewish people in the entire world. Literally more. We can only hope they don’t get too many killed while wishing, as they are, for religious warfare and cataclysms.

          • Ofer Imanuel

            There were some ideas around 1900, to have an “Israel” (really, a Jewish country) in Uganda, and in Alaska. I might be missing another one. These ideas were debated seriously (as per history books) a the time, and rejected, to the lack of attraction to religious Jews. Possibly if the location was attractive, they would have decided differently. The number of Jewish setters at the time was small – in the thousands, but not negligible.
            In any case, this is a road not taken. Discussing it as something to consider at this point in time in pointless, and insulting.

          • FriendlyGoat

            Insulting yourself about that tow to an island haven in the Atlantic or near Hawaii? Please remember, everything I said here was in hopes of a better outcome for Jewish people than most Jewish people outside of America ever got—-or are getting now. We can be done here. It will be what it will be——according to those with the most weaponized stubborness.

          • Ofer Imanuel

            There are these among the left (think BDS) who think Israel is a sin perpetrated by the West, and by the Zionists, and are looking for ways to make it go away.

          • FriendlyGoat

            I’m not one of them who sees Israel as a sin, merely as an unnecessarily difficult situation.

          • Panchatrantra

            Thank you Imanuel for your comment.

  • Maybe the Israelis and Palestinians should seriously begin to contemplate the possibility of a one-state solution of some kind, establishing a universal democracy under which both Jews and Arabs can live together with equal rights for all.

    At least that would peacefully resolve the Jerusalem dispute once and for all; it could become the united capital of the new nation.

    • Tom

      Unfortunately, the Israelis don’t trust the Palestinians to not go by the principle of “one man, one vote, once.” Can’t say as I blame them, much.

  • Marathon-Youth

    The message was clear from the Arab world. They did not want a Jewish State. It was an absolute statement. To make my point if two foreign powers decided that the Carolinas will be either an Islamic theocracy for Arabs or a Communist nation for Chinese without asking America (and please lets not squabble about the sovereignty of America) Washington DC will say “NO”! in the most absolute term.
    However these foreign powers are great enough to bypass DC and impose this state then ask DC what part are we willing to compromise. The answer would be “nothing” . No part are we willing to compromise even if those powers are great enough to force this state upon us and maintain it for the next century.

    • Micah718

      “The message was clear from the Arab world. They did not want a Jewish State.” Then they had to accept what they didn’t want. Why must we cowtow to every Muslim whim? Jews showed that we don’t have to.

      • Panchatrantra

        “Then they had to accept what they didn’t want.” that is called Imperialism. To demand others to accept what they do not want seldom works. To quote Manmohan Singh “We can pick our friends but not our neighbors”” if the Arab world refuses to accept the Jewish state then Israel has to be maintained by force. Going by history that never works.
        Since 1948 the Arab world has gained a lot of power, yet they have not changed their position on Israel. Eventually they will be powerful enough to determine the fate of Israel

        • Micah718

          “Eventually they will be powerful enough to determine the fate of Israel” They will certainly dream of Israel’s destruction. But achieving it? I think not.

          • Panchatrantra

            I think so. Israel wants to annihilate anyone who opposes her. She refuses to change to even be like the Arab world. and uses her power to enforce this system, including power she gets from the US when power like that is used then it will be returned in kind.

          • Micah718

            Lol. Israel was attacked 3 times and kicked a$$ three times. Don’t mess with One God’s Will.

          • Panchatrantra

            Which God is that Micah? Allah? Vishnu? Shiva?

          • Micah718

            There is only One God.

          • Panchatrantra

            Comes in many names many forms many faiths.

          • Micah718

            Names are irrelevant. Different forms are irrelevant. One God’s Will is what it is. Everyone who attempted to go against it has been ground to dust.

          • Panchatrantra

            Judaism has Monotheism Hinduism has Monism. One claims only one God the other a divine entity.

          • Micah718

            You can claim to be whatever you want. Why should I care?

          • Panchatrantra

            Now you got it. No one cares if some call themselves the chosen ones or that their god is the true one.

          • Micah718

            You evidently care. One God chose us. That is His choice not ours. There’s only One God. There is no such thing as “their” god. What you personally believe is irrelevant.

          • Marathon-Youth

            you do not get it. your Yahweh is meaningless as a clod of dirt. It may mean something to you and you may fancy yourself as a chosen one. You can sell that myth to European Christians but not to Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists or any other faith. you speak as if your old testament is something universal it is not. That is your failing. Jews have an inordinate control over Christian Europe, not even Europe under Rome, and certainly not over the world of other faiths.
            Outside of Europe Jews are either marginalized or did not rise above the rest of the community. Only in Europe and only since the 17th century did European Jews rise above the rest in a significant manner. Even then only when the Jews came to the US starting in the 1930’s did they begin to accumulate so much wealth and power.
            this is not reflective of Jews around the world.

          • Micah718

            You see pretty dense. There is no such think as “my” god. There’s One God. The fact that you can’t comprehend this concept speaks poorly of your intellectual abilities.

          • Marathon-Youth

            Judaism’s intolerance of other Gods is seen in the 1st 3 commandments. that intolerance is carried with Jews to this day. Hollywood is a good example. No really good movie has been produced by Hollywood of any other faith or other civilization. Rome is shown as cold, militant, lacking in culture and civilization, prone to slavery and savagery.
            Same is depicted of ancient Egypt. as for other ancient civilizations I do think there are enough matsa balls in Hollywood to make a decent movie on Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism or :Sikhism. they are too pagan
            Judaism is the only faith with no art whatsoever. no iconic art. (not counting the minorah)
            If not for Renaissance Europe and Catholic artists Judaism would have no art. so your blind sense of intolerance is understandable.

          • Micah718

            There are NO other gods. Man, you are stupid. I’m sorry, if you don’t get this point, I will just block you and move on. I have no time to repeat the same thing twenty times.

          • Marathon Youth

            Do you know how ignorant and childish you sound repeating ad nausea “there are no other Gods”? prove it. prove that you are not simply mouthing off something someone told you. The best you can do outside of not proving it is to block me. That is the only way you can admit to yourself I am the better in this debate.

          • Micah718

            I’m supposed to prove One God’s existence to your satisfaction? Ok, let me get right on that.
            P.S. Why would I block you? Talking to you makes me want to praise One God even more. See, even useless anti-Semites like you have a use and a purpose.

          • Marathon-Youth

            you must be a child at mind for you are the one who insisted on the existence of One God and that One god being a Judaic one and when I demanded proof you shy away. You brought up blocking me and when I told you to do so you question why I would . You either have the mature mind of a Jew or the childish mind of a Goyim

          • Micah718

            You not understanding what One God represents is your problem, not mine.

          • Marathon Youth

            Forgot to ask you. Can you prove there is one god and that this god is the one you worship and not the one Christians, Hindus, or Muslims worship?

          • Micah718

            You want me to speak for every single person who prays to God? What makes you think I’m qualified.

          • Marathon-Youth

            Because you took that stand with me, not once but twice. You were persistent about the issue. To quote you:
            “You see pretty dense. There is no such think as “my” god. There’s One God. The fact that you can’t comprehend this concept speaks poorly of your intellectual abilities.”

            You call me dense. then you lecture to me about the One God. So spell it out. prove there is one God and that this god is the one you worship. or you will simply sound like a blowhard.

          • Marathon-Youth

            You may not know this but Ashkenazi Jews..did no even have last names!!! Till the edict of Tolerance in 1782 under Emperor Joseph the II of the Habsburg Empire that demanded Ashkenazi Jews get a last name in order they can be properly educated and taxed. Without last names they avoided taxation and like Muslims Ashkenazi Jews got their education within holy places such as a Synagogue where learning Holy books was the extent of it.
            European culture changed that. But there is more
            Judaism became a world faith due to Christianity spreading across the planet under the colonial Empire.
            Jews whose features and skin color became European was an advantage. They lost the ME dark complexion
            Had the Jews lived in Africa instead of Europe Jews would have emerged looking African and by that sharing the same legacy of Africans.

          • Micah718

            Yes, there were Jews in both Europe and Africa. There are Jews from Europe and Africa in Israel. They share the same country and same love for that country. You think you are some kid of original thinker? You think this is a new argument? Failures such as yourself have been trying to divide us for 5000 years. You will not get brothers to turn on each other. My Ethiopian, my Cuban, my Chinese brother is as dear to me as my Polish, German, Russian, French brother. Good luck trying to divide us! You are gonna need, since your record has been one of failure since the beginning of recorded history. Sure it will be different for you. *barely perceptible eye roll*

          • Marathon-Youth

            you need to read my comment again. Europe is where Jews succeeded.
            ‘Divide you”?? tell that to Rome especially Emperor Vespasian who leveled down the Temple of Jerusalem, scattered the Jews, took the gold and built the Coliseum. Jews remained scattered for decades till they eventually returned to Europe only to face a new faith called Christianity. For the next 2, 000 years Judaism and Christianity grew in Europe.
            Jew who fled to India remained a provincial group near what is Goa today. They never rose to power as in Europe.

          • Marathon-Youth

            Part of Jewish history is that as long as the Temple lives so do the Jews.:When the Temple of Jerusalem was destroyed so were the Jews.
            When the Temple was destroyed and the Sacrifice ended the Hebrews also ended. Rome gave permission to a Rabbi to construct Synagogues and the Talmud became their holy book. In the Temple of Jerusalem it was the Torah.

          • Micah718

            Oh, so Jews have ended? Let me tell the rest of the Jews we have apparently ended according to some Internet anti-Semite.

          • Marathon Youth

            You did not know the importance of the Temple of Jerusalem is to Judaism?
            That “anti semite’ bit from the 19th century is not working anymore.

          • Micah718

            So you admit Jews haven’t ended. Ok good. I was afraid I was talking to a retard for a second.

          • Marathon-Youth

            What did your parents do to you that other Jewish parents normally do not. you must be the most neurotic discombobulated jew I have ever met.

          • Micah718

            Up your ad hominem game.

          • Marathon-Youth

            In that sense Islam and Judaism have a central focus
            Pre Roman Judaism the entire faith focused on the Temple of Jerusalem
            Islam focuses on Mecca.

          • Marathon-Youth

            Judaism is not 5000 years old since she draws her roots to Abraham who was around 1300 to 1500 BC.

          • Micah718

            Another expert on Jewish history heard from.

          • Marathon Youth

            I am Christian so yes I should know Jewish history but I also like history.

          • Micah718

            Congratulations?

          • Panchatrantra

            See Micah I got you there :That little guilt trip used about Yahweh ONLY works in Christianity. When it comes to Islam , Hinduism, Buddhism Jews do not have this hold. They lose.

          • Micah718

            There is no guilt trip. One God’s Will is what it is. Your belief or lack thereof is irrelevant. Now we have Hamas and ISIS killing each other in Sinai. When our enemies start killing each other, we know victory is assured since One God has entered the battle.

          • Panchatrantra

            You simplify it to the point of irrelevance. Does not make sense ISIS will kill Hamas and not attack Israel.

          • Micah718

            Muslims do many things that make no sense to me. But killing each other is always good news. Especially when it involves ISIS and Hamas. May they akbar each other until the end of time.

          • Panchatrantra

            Okay

          • Micah718

            What’s twice as good as a dead Hamas terrorist? 2 dead Hamas terrorists.

          • Panchatrantra

            Especially when they die blowing up half the block.

          • Micah718

            So you support killing of the innocent civilians? Good for you. I’m not here to judge. Someone else will do the Judging, and I doubt you will get much leniency.

          • Marathon-Youth

            Micah
            you make a lame joke about Islamic terrorists but fail to see the deadliness of a suicide bomber? The world I wrote to you about developed Suicide bombers. so far the MSM reports feeble attempts at suicide bombing. dedicated Suicide bombers pack enough explosives to take out half a block. So far we have not been hit like those who attacked Sri Lanka.

          • Micah718

            That’s why I made a dead Hamas joke. Because I know what these cowards do. You think your support for killing innocents makes you strong. It doesn’t. It makes you inherently weak.

          • Marathon-Youth

            Micah. you must have reading problems. I lost relatives and friends in that war. Sri Lanka never ever ever had people leaving that island nation in all her 2500 years of documented history in the Mahavamsa, Culavamsa, Dipavamsa, Rajagilya or Bodhivamsa. We never had a reason to leave. that is how terrible the war was
            When Suicide bombers attacked dozens if not far more died immediately. 2 leaders of 2 nations and scores of politicians and businessmen were killed. I am pointing to the deadliness of them, nothing to be proud about.

          • Micah718

            Yet you support Muslim terrorists blowing up buses and pizzerias. I guess as long as it’s just Jews getting killed, amiright?

          • Marathon Youth

            You said that . I never even implied that. Closest I came is when one group faces an army resistance is shown. Terrorism is one of the most effective methods against a powerful military.

          • Micah718

            Oh don’t be so modest. We are all friends here. Of course you like dead Jews. But much to your dismay, Jews have learned to defend themselves. Really well too.

          • Marathon-Youth

            Are we friends Micah? and Do I like dead Jews? Are both points right. are they both wrong if not which one is right and which is wrong? You sound confused.

          • Micah718

            I see somebody needs to understand sarcasm a little bit better.

          • Panchatrantra

            Jews and Judaism even loses with their own product aka Communism. once that sense of holiness is gone the moral high ground is not there anymore.

          • Micah718

            Don’t worry about Jews. We have outlived countless pharaohs, sultans, caliphs, emirs, kings, emperors, and on and on. Rest assured that we will outlive you too.

          • Panchatrantra

            No you haven’t. One book is “The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit” by E. Michael Jones which includes a long line of mixing including the Kazakhs to that in Europe. European Jews are only by claim. Here in the US there isn’t even a category for Jews, only Whites which Jews check.
            Another book is “Crucifixion of Russia” by Columbus Falco. which is the uncensored translation of Alexandre Solzhenitsyn “Two Hundred Years Together”
            You make it sound like the Tribes of Israel remained intact.

          • Micah718

            Lol. We have sweetie. You will be one of those we will outlive. It’s gonna be a hoot, I promise.

          • Panchatrantra

            Then call me “Rosenfield” for I am a Jew

          • Micah718

            I doubt that.

    • QET

      Your analogy is inapposite. A more correct analogy would be, if there were still some US territory in the lower 48 that had not organized and joined as a state yet, the return of American Indians of the same nation as had lived there prior to 1600, and their declaration of, say, half of that territory as a free and independent state under their government (which extended even to Anglos living within that part of the territory), with the US federal government acceding to this arrangement, perhaps after the Indians had bombed federal government installations in that territory. The analogy would continue: those Anglos in the part under Indian government would attempt to drive the Indians out by force of arms but would fail. Then the abutting states, governed by Anglos (or other Europeans), would militarily invade the Indian state on at least 3 separate occasions, and would fail each time to drive the Indians out. Instead of moving to an abutting state with a culture and government more consistent with their heritage and preferences, the Anglos in this new Indian state would constantly complain about being oppressed by the Indians and demand the US (and the UN) do something to make the Indians leave.

      The “Arab world” did not govern or control Israel so its opinions don;t seem particularly compelling. It had been under the control of the Ottoman Empire (not an Arab empire). That empire picked the wrong side in WW1 and was dying before that anyway. The Allies took over nominal control and, for various political reasons and machinations, over a period of years promised various Arabs and also various Jews that each would receive control of the place. After WW2 a partition was proposed but rejected by the Arabs because they felt they could drive the Jews out. We all know what happened next.

      • Panchatrantra

        “please lets not squabble about the sovereignty of America”
        I wrote that in. My disclaimer you chose to ignore
        The people who migrated to Israel came from European nations including Germany, Poland, Russia, France, England. They are maintaining a Western European culture in the Arab world while claiming the right to be there based on a history that has to ignore 2 thousand years in Europe and go to a time before the Roman Empire which these European Migrants do not identify.

        • Micah718

          The best part? From Niles to Euphrates. This is just the beginning. Have patience. The timetable is unknowable; the result is inevitable.

          • Marathon-Youth

            Israel is a European imposition on the Arab world. The Jews in Israel are of European heritage. Their ancestry is closer to the French, German, Poles, Russians and English. They and Israel are alien to the Middle East. They use America’s technology and Western might to enforce their presence. In return they have got Islamic terrorism.
            There is no effort by these European Jews to adopt to their Middle Eastern heritage which they abandoned 2 thousand years ago when they made Europe their new “homeland”.

  • QET

    Analysis: true. Another aspect is the cynical sacrifice of these people’s well-being by the other Arab nations who used the “conflict” for decades for their own domestic and international politics.

    My take on Arafat is that a state and peace were the last things he wanted. His personal incentives were entirely opposed to such things.
    Once those were secured, he would have been just another leader of just another small underdeveloped nothing-special state. He would recede into the background. The succession of “peace talks” would come to an end. The media spotlight would shift elsewhere. He would not be flown around and feted in American and European capitals. He would be expected to actually solve domestic problems and provide economic growth and health for his people, who would not appreciate his diversion of so much cash to himself and his retainers. This seemed so obvious to me that I was incredulous that by the late 1980s the charade was still going on.

  • len

    The Palestinians strategy is to find a way to negotiate with Israel from a position of strength, something that is a fantasy for them now and has been in the past. The history between Israel and the Palestinians have been about Palestinian leadership by various methods and strategies getting to that position of negotiating strength, and Israel neutralizing or countering those strategies. Israel understands that if and when the Palestinians have that negotiating edge there will be no negotiations with Israel just a bloodbath that would make the enemies of the Jewish People proud. In the meantime propped up by Iran, China, Russia the United Nations ,BDS,SJP etc. all working for their own specific interests Palestinian leadership can declare to it’s people that there is a future hope that that “negotiating edge” will one day come about. In the meantime the “Dance of the Macabre” continues.

  • Steve Smith

    Of course they wanted a state–just not the pittance of one that European Jewish interlopers were willing to given them. It’s true that the Arabs have been utterly incompetent at resisting the Zionist machine of conquest, but that’s another issue.

  • David Schuler

    To understand the Palestinians’ position you’ve got to turn to phrasing used in the theory of causes: necessary and sufficient. For the Palestinians a state of their own is necessary but it is not sufficient. For the Palestinians to have a state of their own and the Jews to not have a state of their own would be sufficient.

© The American Interest LLC 2005-2018 About Us Masthead Submissions Advertise Customer Service
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.