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South China Sea
ASEAN Rebukes China, Then Gives Away the Store
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  • D4x

    Good thing Sec Tillerson had a good talk with FM Lavrov at ASEAN meet Aug.5-6, 2017. Hope they talked about ALL of the HR 3364 sanctions, which also includes sanctions on Iran and North Korea:

    “Lavrov, Tillerson discuss new US sanctions; The Russian top diplomat stresses Moscow is ready to normalize dialogue with the
    United States” August 06, 14:36 http://tass.com/politics/959304

    Simultaneous with the ASEAN meet, NorK’s Kim Jong-Un sent his #2 to Iran, for Rouhani’s inauguration Aug. 5-6, 2017:

    “Iran’s official IRNA news agency reported Kim Yong Nam, head of North Korea’s parliament, arrived Thursday for the weekend
    inauguration of Iranian President Hassan Rouhani. But given he is expected to stay 10 days, the trip is being seen as a front for Pyongyang to perhaps increase military cooperation with Tehran and to boost the hard currency for the dynastic regime led by Kim Jong Un.” https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/04/north-korea-officials-visit-to-iran-could-signal-wider-military-ties.html

    NorKs are known to be working in Iran on nuclear, and ballistic missile development.

    With all due respect to China’s activities in the South China Sea…

  • PCB

    It may well be the U.S. was standing down to give ASEAN an chance to stand up to China’s active policy of encroachment and expansionism. Instead of learning from Chamberlain, ASEAN seems to have erected their own gibbet of appeasement from which they too may ultimately find themselves hanging.

    • ltlee1

      Alea iacta est. Given that US style democracy is not better than China democratic centrism. And China has 4 times of US population. China’s economy will be 4 times of US economy. Just a matter of when, not if. US, at best, would be a marginal player in SE Asia. ASEAN’s choice is clear as indicated by earlier poll on ASEAN elites.

      Invoking Chamberlain is missing the point, China, with its long history, is not any upstart nation like pre-world war Germany. In contrast, the US is, culturally speaking, an adolescent and more likely to commit adolescent mistakes.

      • PCB

        Your so-called democratic centrism and communist capitalism is merely the opiate THE PARTY sedates its people with to keep them comfortably numb and THE PARTY comfortably in power. If the Chinese people had a measure of true democracy, THE PARTY would have been out on their asses long ago. THE PARTY may like to appear dignified and civilized to the world, but they are murderers, thugs and thieves no different than the Nazi’s, and Soviets of another age.

        Lest THE PARTY think itself too clever, make no mistake, America has never been fooled by THE PARTY’s motives or disingenuous friendly engagement.

        • ltlee1

          Democracy begins with trusting the people. And to judge China, one has no choice but to rely on the judgement of the Chinese people. Currently an absolute majority of Chinese are optimistic about China because China is on the right track. When was the last time most Americans saw America on the right track? 40 years ago?

          Feel free to see THE PARTY your way. But please do not conflate your view with the Chinese people’s view.

          • PCB

            Trusting the People – ha, that’s rich coming from a country where the people’s every thought, internet search, writing, and movement, even their reproduction, is controlled by THE PARTY – that’s a novel trust of people. Please don’t conflate coerced approval with true expression. Any dissent is asking for a bullet in the head. Xi is Mao, just better dressed.

          • ltlee1

            If by “rich” you meant to say “difficult for you to imagine,” it is your problem. For the Chinese people, they are face to face with their government everyday. And they inevitably form their judgement according to their experience.

            Concerning the rest of your response, I will comment on the “One Child Policy.”

            How could one judge a policy? I would suggest one criteria? Would the people choose to do it if they know better? If yes, it is a good policy. By this criteria, China’s “One Child Policy,” is a good policy despite its imperfections.

          • PCB

            You are a faithful Party member, but you are neither free nor self-determinant. Our conversation could not take place in China. You do not persuade me, as I am sure I do not you – But I admire your convictions, still.

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