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Diplomatic Impunity
Erdogan’s Goons Bring Turkish Violence to American Soil
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  • D4x

    America’s weakness has been on display to the world since the ‘resistance’ decided to protest, with violence, anyone they disagree with. Erdogan’s security guards have diplomatic immunity, as does the Ambassador’s residence, and Embassy.
    “…Foreign security details are protected under diplomatic immunity afforded to their countries’ leaders, he said. If protesters feel as
    if their civil rights were trampled, he added, they have no recourse under international law. …”

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/why-turkish-bodyguards-involved-bloody-d-c-brawl-likely-won-n760926

    Perhaps the Turks were confused, and thought they were in Berkeley, CA, protesting Heather MacDonald? Irony aside, is it true the protestors were Kurds and Armenians? Pakistanis might think so: “…Local news reports said Erdogan supporters and security guards clashed with Kurdish and Armenian protesters who accuse him of rights abuses, local news reports said. …”

    http://dailytimes.com.pk/world/17-May-17/erdogan-supporters-opponents-clash-in-Washington

    • Nevis07

      Screw their diplomatic immunity. I don’t care if they’re Kurdish, Turkish, black, white, Christian or Muslim. Trump should figure out some creative way to prosecute these assholes and make sure they get the beatdown in a jail cell they deserve.

      • D4x

        POTUS Trump has better priorities than overturning 5,000 years of historical precedent, the 1815 Congress of Vienna, the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations of 1961, and the Diplomatic Relations Act of 1978 (22 U.S.C. § 254a et seq.).

        Besides, good for the Kurds, and Armenians, to demonstrate the vicious intolerance of Erdogan’s Turkey.

        • Nemo

          5,000 years? And the recorded treatment of Persian ambassadors by Athens and Sparta in 491BC isn’t historical precedent?

          • D4x

            A better precedent would be Genghis Khan’s 1219 CE execution of Inalchuk of Khwarezmia (Persia), by pouring molten silver into his eyes and ears, after Inalchuk massacred the entire caravan of Genghis’ ambassador, and the subsequent beheading of Genghis’ next ambassador, to Inalchuk’s uncle, Sultan Muhammed II.

            The good old days, before the post-WW2 order that codified diplomatic immunity.

          • Nemo

            Ah, the good old days. No doubt if you did that now you’d have some loon complaining that molten silver causes climate change. Sigh.

          • D4x

            The climate change faction adopted Identity is Indigenous Peoples, no disrespect intended.
            Inalchuk is not exactly a sympathetic Turk. Not today.

    • RedWell

      The causal line between campus protestors and this incident is … implausible.

      • D4x

        That you fail to see it was the appearance of the Kurdish flag that brought Erdogan’s security running into this D.C. protest is implausible.

        “Irony aside”, the key difference between violent protests on US college campuses to protest speeches, and non-violent protests by Turkish Kurds in Turkey is that, in Turkey, Erdogan’s police uses tear gas and deploys tanks.

        Since CNN amplified BLM violence in Ferguson, MO, the rest of the world sees violence in US ‘protests’ as normal, making the author of this post very naïve in this conclusion:

        “…it’s a demonstration of American weakness and of Erdogan’s sense of dominance over the ineffective loudmouths in Washington that will resonate through Turkey and the Middle East—and will be taken note of elsewhere.”

        • RedWell

          I have been trying to isolate your causal claim, here, but I can’t. Do you mean that some highly visible protests in US cities in the last years has lead Erdogan to believe that he can use violence against peaceful protestors?

          If so, I have some questions.

          So what of Erdogan’s behavior in the years before BLM and so forth?
          Are we to say that all authoritarian treatment of violent protest can be traced back to domestic politics in the US?
          What about the precedent of nearly all authoritarian governments since the beginning of government?
          What about the fact of growing conservative Islam in Turkey?
          What about the response of nearly all the Arab regimes to protest in 2011?
          What about Turkey’s decades-long intolerance toward the Kurds?

          We could just as easily and with just as much evidence claim that Turks feel emboldened because (1) Americans elected as president a nationalist who uses an authoritarian vocabulary and (2) is supported by millions of people intolerant of any dissent that clashes with their cultural expectations of acceptable behavior.

          This fits a very specific, domestic US story about how terrible protestors are for their temerity and foolishness. It is also far from an actual empirical theory of protest diffusion and government response.

          Again, as an empirical claim, it is stylized at best, implausible at its most likely.

          • D4x

            You should go here to find those who belong to your close-minded cult where you can waste their time with your questions: https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2017/05/video-shows-turkish-president-get-out-of-the-car-prior-to-violent-protests/527331/

            Your bizarre belief that, in your exact words: “(1) Americans elected as president a nationalist who uses an authoritarian vocabulary and (2) is supported by millions of people intolerant of any dissent that clashes with their cultural expectations of acceptable behavior.”

            merits no further response from me, still recovering from too many years of ProgressiveDemocrat intolerance.

          • RedWell

            To clarify, I’m not saying I necessarily believe those things, I am saying they are as plausible as your claims. Both positions are framing shared facts for a given audience.

            I can see, though, that maybe you don’t separate empirical causal claims from ideological claims set out to oversimplify the world, set people into “us vs them” camps and mobilize followers.

            Probably correct to not waste any more time in dialogue.

            You know, interesting thing about the Atlantic. I don’t read most of their articles because it is a bit silly with its progressive assumptions. Kind of like what I read over here but on the other end. But, frankly, the writing is much better and the level of discourse higher. It’s more engaging. I do spend much more time there.

            Cult? Hmmm…. If by that you mean the majority of Americans who did not vote for Trump, it’s a rather unexclusive cult.

            If you mean “progressives,” I’m afraid I don’t quite fit there, either.

            If you mean liberal, maybe that does fit, in the classic sense: constitutionalism; institutions to limit human nature; government to protect rights–including property rights–as well as fill social needs that the market fails to address; strong defense without sliding into militarism. A bit of Locke, Burke, Tocqueville and JS Mill.

            I always thought classic liberalism was “conservative.” Unfortunately, conservative now signifies nationalists who support plutocrats and mobilize people through fear of “the liberal media!” and “SJWs!” Its conservative in the European far right sense, and that is positively dangerous.

            Meeting liberal intolerance with another, perhaps even more aggressive form is not healthy.

            As for recovering from many years of such intolerance, I find such a claim rather incredible. In what way did the Obama years, for example, affect how you live your life? Seems to me that American society and culture are evolving in good and bad ways, as it ever has. Of course, many progressives push too many frivolous demands (on college campuses, for example).

            Still, if you mean stuff like gay marriage or not conflating all Muslims with extremist Muslims, that strikes me as normal civil discourse about individual rights. How many segregationists in the 1960s felt outraged at liberals and blacks telling them what to do and how to behave? Guess what, though? Those people were morally and legally wrong. You win some you lose some. Sometimes we’re wrong. Sorry your culture is changing, but that’s life.

          • D4x

            Go find an intellectual who cares.

            In 2008, when the death threats came from inside Obama’s campaign.
            No escape.

          • RedWell

            P.S. Characterizing the other side as a cult says more about the accuser than the accused.

            This applies to the narrow minds of both liberals and conservatives.

          • D4x

            Got it from a self-described: “Meet a Leftist Who Is Leaving What She Calls “the SJW
            Cult”” https://pjmedia.com/trending/2017/05/18/meet-a-leftist-who-is-leaving-what-she-calls-the-sjw-cult/

  • Beauceron

    And?

    Antifa and their Black Block associates have been beating the heck out of Trump supporters for months now– and injuries from those attacks have been way worse than what happened yesterday. There have been people beaten with baseball bats and steel bike locks. Not a word from the mainstream media on it, except to say there were generic “clashes.” They certainly don’t condemn it– rather they usually support it with a smirk or turning a blind eye.

    I don’t really see why I should be too concerned about Erdogan supporters attacking dissidents, when no one seems upset about Obama/Bernie/Hillary supporters attacking conservatives.

    Physically attacking and beating people who disagree with you on politics is now part of the political language of the US. That’s just a fact.

    It is perfectly fine to take a bike U lock and smash someone’s skull in when they disagree with you about politics. Like it or not, that’s where we are now as a society. If Turks want to beat the heck out of each other on American streets, have at it. We have no right to tell them it’s wrong or improper.

    • Gary Hemminger

      This response is wrong in so many ways. Just because things happen sometimes doesn’t mean they happen all the time. Not everyone who disagrees with people politically are cracking peoples skulls. The problem is that some people think this is okay. You are saying you think it is okay. Well I don’t and most people don’t as well. I don’t care if it is Turks, Democrats, or Republicans…cracking people on the skull when you don’t agree with them is uncivilized and illegal behavior and should be punished. any of the Turks that were found to be doing this should be barred from the country for life.

      • Fat_Man

        No, they happen all the time and leftist street violence is given a pass by the media and the cops.

        P.S. what do you call someone who is part of a gang that wears black shirts and masks, and goes around physically attacking people they conceive to be their political opponents?

        • Makaden

          Ninjas?

        • D4x

          Fascists, with fashion stylists.

      • Beauceron

        You often see this type of nebulous defense deployed to support the indefensible. I reject outright the notion that because not everyone within a group does a particular thing, you may not make a generalization about that group.

        So someone says “Group A likes Z,” and there is occassionally someone there to say “Well, you know, not everyone in Group A likes Z, some of them like Y.” That may well be so, but if enough people in Group A like Z, it is fair to say that Group A likes Z.

        It’s just a bad argument.

        These attacks have gone on for months now and have happened literally all over the country. There are dozens of incidents. On campus, off campus, west coast, northeast, south, Midwest. Have you simply been ignoring it? Have you just tuned it out? The press rarely if ever reports on it, and hardly ever lays the blame on groups like Antifa. At best they’ll blame it on both sides– of course if right wing people were to show up and attack a Leftist rally, I have no doubt that would be all over the news for days.

        Want more videos? There’s no shortage.

        The fact is that if you are a conservative and you want to go to a rally or to hear a conservative speaker, you need to go prepared to fight. You need to review the weapons laws in the jurisdiction and arm yourself accordingly, staying within the law, but prepared to defend yourself. It’s best to bring a helmet, either a bike helmet or baseball helmet, because they use clubs, bike locks, and throw rocks and bricks. They will also pepper spray or mace you, so goggles and milk are usually smart to bring as well. They also throw M80s into crowds, so earplugs are smart too– not much you can do if you step on one of those.
        That people like you shrug and pretend it’s not happening, or that it’s not a big problem are why it’s happening. And this will get far worse before it gets better. Conservatives seem to be learning to fight back. They will need to. They need to coordinate, form groups or militias, arm themselves, train on how to best injure and incapacitate their opponents.
        Its that or lose your free speech and assembly rights to mobs of black clad, masked Leftists.
        Take your pick.
        There will be deaths at these things soon– one person has already been shot.

        • LivingRock

          Seems kind of a bizarre strawman to justify this action by Erdogan’s state sponsored thugs by essentially saying “because antifa”.

          • Beauceron

            But of course I am not “justifying” this action any more than I am Antifa’s actions.

            The press has gone a bit wild over this– demanding that the administration take action. My point is merely that it’s a bit absurd and hypocritical to melt down, or really even condemn, this event, when most of the press has been, for 10 months now, studiously ignoring even worse and more frequent actions from the American Left.

            I’m supposed to get worked up over a bunch of Turks having a fight when no one cares about Americans attacking other Americans?

            C’mon.

            And, incidentally, I think you’d have more luck trying a false equivalency fallacy than claiming it’s a red herring. I am not floating violent Leftists to distract from violent Turks, so it’s not even a red herring at all. I suppose you could make the argument that foreign nationals attacking protestors is worse than American citizens attacking protestors. Not sure that would work out well either.

            But my broader point is that you can’t open the Pandora’s Box of political violence and then try and shut it when the people assaulting others are ones you don’t like. Whether you or I like it or not, attacking and beating people who disagree with you on politics has been normalized now. There have been scores of attacks over the past 10 months, and most go completely unreported, or are miss-reported. Our media has made it OK– in fact have almost encouraged it. I don’t like it, but it’s the reality now.

          • LivingRock

            You make a fair point on the false equivalency being more accurate. But, the liberal principals you’re concerned about in regards to conservatives voicing their opinions and the associated media coverage, falls in line with TAI’s concern about foreign henchman abusing protestors in a domestic setting.

            We shouldn’t have conservative or any opinions ignored or shut down, just as we shouldn’t have Turkish goons beating up protestors in Washington D.C. If your concern about the former causes you to somehow ignore the later, then, with respect, I think your priorities need examination. Frankly, to me the issues are two separate ones though there may be some connection.

        • D4x

          Antifa replaced the BLM provocatuers, circa 2017.

  • Dan Kearns

    That video is astounding considering the headlines over at the NYT and WSJ. I didn’t bother reading the articles before this because the headlines seemed to imply “same old, same old.” But that really was just an attack. Amazing.

    • Gregale

      Hypothetical: Imagine the media response if those were Russians.

      • Dan Kearns

        So many heads in certain precincts would explode that the Times building itself might blast apart, I suspect! 🙂

  • tellourstory

    This should only surprise somebody who hasn’t been paying attention to Erdogan’s behavior for the past couple of years. Erdogan has dreamed of becoming the unopposed Sultan for sometime now and was recently given the power to become just that. His crimes have been reported, (bombing the Kurds, arresting journalists, academics, etc.), and the international community’s reaction to his repeated atrocities was–oh, right, nothing.

    Maybe the question shouldn’t be, “How could he do this in America?”, but “Why wouldn’t he do this in America or anywhere else for that matter?” It’s not like he expects anyone to stop him given the appeasement he’s received for years.

    On another note, this reminded me of something I saw in Japan a few years back. Some Turks started brawling outside the Turkish embassy in Japan and the police had to step in and stop it. Maybe the Turks just like to fight?
    [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RWR82N-MYE&w=560&h=315%5D

  • QET

    This is not acceptable,” Mr. Yasa, 60, said. “This is America. This is not Turkey.”

    No, it’s Berkeley.

    EDIT: Just saw D4x beat me to it!

  • Charles Martel

    The continuing scandal of having these thugs as NATO allies makes America look weak and witless. Apparently no amount of dangerous provocation (shooting down a Russian plane), aid to Salafi jihadists, genocide denial, anti-semitic conspiracy theories, domestic human rights abuses, and ongoing illegal occupation of a neighbouring country can make the US reevaluate its links if it has a convenient airbase.

    Appalling.

    • Gary Hemminger

      My lord, this post is wrong too. Just because some Trumps are evil doesn’t make them all evil. You go from some evil, to all evil, to America is weak, to we shouldn’t have them as a NATO ally. Very bad logic.

      • Fat_Man

        On this one he is right. Turkey should be expelled from NATO.

        • f1b0nacc1

          Better still, we should leave NATO

      • mikeman

        Spoken like an apologist milksop. Let’s try this reasoning on you Gary. All democrats are communists, all communists are violent and evil. One can logically conclude that democrats are evil and support violence to get their way.

  • Why are we allies with this nation again…?

    • tellourstory

      That’s a great question. It’s a question that our foreign policy team should have asked a long time ago and done something about. Turkey has been aligning itself with Russia even though it’s a part of NATO, which supposedly exists to contain Russia. I guess this apparent conflict of interest will in no way harm the alliance because rocking the boat would be worse than realizing that the situation in Turkey is a lot different than it was a few decades ago. . .or something. . .

      Seriously, the US really needs to re-evaluate some of its alliances. This situation could easily escalate into something far more dangerous.

    • LizardLizard

      Erdogan is not a good guy, for sure, but NATO member. Incirclik Air Base.

      • f1b0nacc1

        Leave NATO, shut down the airbase, and let the Turks continue their barbarous behavior without our imprimatur

        • D4x

          A Greater Kurdistan would be so much better than Erdogan’s Turkey in NATO. Turkey owns Incirlik Air Base. NATO is allowed to use it. For whatever reason, POTUS is going along with Turkey in NATO. Kobane Air Base on the Syrian, border in Rojava is our only ‘response’.

          • f1b0nacc1

            Correct, but even better would be for the US to simply leave NATO, and let the Turks deal with the consequences. There are no interests that we have in this area that are worth the life of a single American soldier.

          • D4x

            Guess we have to wait until June to see about America leaving NATO.

          • f1b0nacc1

            Won’t happen. Too many sinecures for milicrats and Foggy Bottom types…

          • D4x

            Was half-joking. More likely entreaties from various NATO members made an impression.

  • FriendlyGoat

    The message elsewhere is “What the heck is going on in Trump’s America?” Erdogan went to Washington with a force that beats up protesters of Erdogan or Turkey—–in America?

    • mikeman

      Why so surprised? Erdogan’s brown shirts have political cover from the democrat party media. So what if a couple of women get beat up? They NYT and Compost’s mantra is the end justifies the means.
      And both of these democrat party media shills want dictators to succeed, as long as they’re anti American.

      • FriendlyGoat

        You cannot blame Erdogan on American Media. On of the questions related to “What the heck is going on in Trump’s America”?” is “How did Trump supporters come to spin every (EVERY) issue upside down every (EVERY) day?”

  • LizardLizard

    Imagine what they do to their people at home.

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