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An End to Ataturk's Republic
What Erdogan’s Win Means
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  • D4x

    While we await a recount, or not, The Guardian disagrees with Mr. Bernard in thinking a majority of Turkey’s Kurds voted No: “…The country’s three largest cities – Istanbul, Ankara and Izmir – voted against the changes, and so did the vast majority of Kurdish voters and many of the coastal cities, indicating a general decline in the ruling party’s support. …”

  • solstice

    What is noteworthy is that TAI does not utter a peep about how disastrously wrong Western elites were in their promotion of democracy in the Muslim Muslim East — i.e., the same people who lauded Erdogan as a symbol of moderate Muslim democracy during his earlier years and who sanctomoniously sneered at those who warned about the dangers of democracy in Turkey and the true nature of Erdogan and his party.

  • jsdozcn9

    “For once, the pre-election polls were right. ”

    That can happen when the same people who fake the polls also fake the elections.

  • Angel Martin

    More “brilliance” from Obama, who lauded Erdogan as “a man of principle, and also a man of action”, and one of his top five best buddies

  • Fat_Man

    Erdogan: This is as good a time as any to bid a fond farewell to Erdogan and his country.

    Under Erdogan, the Turks have not been friends of the United States. The United States needs the Turks like it needs boils. And boils is pretty much what the Turks have been to US foreign policy for the past 15 years.

    Turkey has no economic or strategic importance to the United States. Turkey has no natural resources of any importance. It has no technology, and limited industrial capacity. No trade routes go through Turkey. If Turkey were destroyed utterly by some natural calamity, the United States and its people would not notice the missing country in any way. And it would have no impact on the world at large. Although the Kurds would be very happy.

    It is long past time when we should shut down Incirlik, and get our people away from a situation where they could become the hostages of an Islamist madman. On our way out we should destroy the place and its facilities so that the Russians and the Turks cannot use them. If there are nuclear weapons at Incirlik, we must get them out of there STAT. The danger of the Turks, the Russians, and the Iranians stealing them is far too grave. Incirlik should be replaced by a new base in Jordan that should also house an armored brigade. That would serve to protect Jordan from both ISIS and Iran.

    The idea that Turkey has strategic importance is a historical remnant. At the First Millennium of the Christian Era, Constantinople was the largest and richest city in western Eurasia. In 1453, the Turks conquered Constantinople. They then controlled the trade routes between Europe and East Asia. The Europeans responded by exploring the sea routes to Asia, and in the process discovered the New World. Ocean trade always trumps land routes. Turkey began its long slide into irrelevance. In the 19th Century, control of the Eastern Mediterranean, and the trade routes from India to Britain was a vital object of British foreign policy. None of that has any relevance in the 21st century. Turkey is just another dying Islamic country without oil.

    It is time to pull out of Turkey and leave the Turks to their fate. The world would be better off if Turkey were cut into three pieces. Turkey in Europe, the suburbs of Constantinople, and the Black Sea littoral should be given to Russia and Christianized. The Eastern third of Turkey should be given to the Kurds, and the remainder should be left to rot. As to seaports for the Kurds, they could take Hatay Province from Turkey. It is the chunk of Turkey, on the Mediterranean coast north of Syria. Its capital is Antakya (Antioch), and its port city is Iskenderun (Alexandretta).

    • Angel Martin

      the only thing I disagree with is the west should not give anything to Putin for free – including Constantinople.

      However, the expulsion of moslems from the Turkish Straits would be an amazing thing.

      • Fat_Man

        Having to Christianize the area makes it a lot less than free.

        • Angel Martin

          That’s Putin’s problem – although I wish him luck.

          I was thinking more along the lines of: leave the Baltics and Ukraine alone, and you can do what you will to Turkey since it has been expelled from NATO.

    • Tom

      Eh, there are trade routes that run through Turkish territory–any trade that has start or ending ports in the Black Sea, for example–and the Turks have a relatively decent economy. Meanwhile, the Suez Canal is still a major trade artery–not as vital as it was in the late 1800s and early 1900s, but still an important one all the same.
      While I don’t disagree with your overall point–namely, that it’s probably time to tell Turkey “so long, farewell, auf wiedersehn, goodbye” pretending that the country is irrelevant is to deny reality.

      • Fat_Man

        “any trade that has start or ending ports in the Black Sea”
        Romania? Bulgaria? Georgia? Ukraine? The Black Sea is a slum of no importance to the US.
        ” the Turks have a relatively decent economy”
        For a Muslim Country with no natural resources. Sort of like a fat girl who doesn’t sweat much.
        “The Suez Canal.”
        A solid 350 miles from Turkey.

        Turkey is of no economic or strategic importance to the US. It may be an issue for some European Countries, but the Euros need to learn how to solve problems on their own.

        • Tom

          Their GDP per capita is in the top 40% for the entire world.
          And 350 miles is well within airstrike range, these days.
          You’re overselling your point by a long shot.

          • Fat_Man

            The top 40% wow.

            The Turkish Airforce? I am sure that USAF sits up nights trembling.

            My point is not challenged by these factoids. Turkey is a worthless country in a worthless corner of the world.

          • Tom

            How about the Russian one, genius?
            I’m sorry that you live in a world where you refuse to believe that there are possible downsides to your policy prescriptions, but that’s not my problem. It’s yours.

          • Fat_Man

            The Russians are worthless, and they are dangerous, a third world country with thousands of nuclear weapons. Further Russia is immediately adjacent to the US. What they do in the Black Sea will make little difference to us. The Arctic and the North Pacific are different stories.

            The Turks are just worthless.

  • FriendlyGoat

    What this most likely “means” is that religion just took—–by a very small margin—- another country backwards in an election. Happened in the USA. Happened in Turkey.

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