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EU and What Army?
German Army Has to Leave NATO Exercises Early Because of Overtime Rules
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  • qet

    von Moltke weeps.

    • f1b0nacc1

      Elder or younger?

      • qet

        Both, I’m sure, but I was thinking Elder when I wrote it.

        • f1b0nacc1

          I agree….I doubt that the Younger could have worked up the neural activity to understand the problem, much less respond to it.

  • Blackbeard

    I usually make a snarky comment about the fall of western civilization when I see these stories but really how can you add anything to this.

    • Andrew Allison

      It does seem axiomatic that military service and overtime are, shall we say congruent. The piteous state of Europe’s so-called “military” could be better defined.

    • lurkingwithintent

      They might need to try shift work military and hire part-timers for the weekends.

      • pandainc

        Loaning the P/T ones their weapons for the weekend, no doubt. Do they have a night shift?

    • MattBracken

      Put it into the context of a breakout of jihad civil war across Europe, with a Bataclan, Brussels, Beslan or Mumbai attack coming every other day. The Euros just don’t have the “bench” they’ll need to sustain the fight. The Belgians security forces were completely exhausted and incapable after just a few days. What happens when follow-up attacks from new bombings to street stabbings are happening every day? What happens to the European economy, when airports and metro systems are chronically shut down?

      Tet, Take Two: Islam’s 2016 European Offensive

      Tet, Klappe Zwei: Die europäische Offensive des Islam im Jahr 2016

      L’offensive islamique en Europe: un Têt numéro 2?

  • Jacksonian_Libertarian

    America needs to light a fire under them by giving notice of withdrawal from NATO. Let them show the American’s that they would do whatever is necessary to keep American in, with deeds and not words. If not then America should leave, and just have bilateral defense treaties with those nations willing to shoulder their responsibilities.

    • pandainc

      No warning, just the bilaterals and we gone. BTW, move the UN to France at the same time.

  • Steve

    When I was assigned to NATO in the early 90’s, a German soldier or officer would give you 110% during the normal work week, but except for scheduled exercises, couldn’t be found on the weekend. Nor could the Danes, Norwegians, Belgians, Dutch, Greeks, Italians Spaniards, Portuguese, Luxembourgers (I think we only had one), or Icelanders (never saw one). To get work done on a Saturday, you had to go to the Brits, Canadians, Americans or Turks. Don’t know how the influx of Eastern Europeans into NATO may have changed that, but suspect the Poles, Czechs and Hungarians are more available than the guys from the Med.

    • Angel Martin

      Well, at least we know that when Putin attacks it will start on Friday night.

      • pandainc

        Or the ragheads at night except for Ramanden — they’re too busy gorging themselves after the daily fasts.

  • Techtor Gorch

    We can stop worrying about the Germans trying to take over the world again, as their behavior in the 20th century suggested they are wont to try.

    • AnneG

      Germans have given up their designs on domination just until they have someone to inspire them.

    • flicka47

      Rather than fight a war, they are trying to do it financially. You don’t think they feel they should be in charge of the EU?

      • Techtor Gorch

        I wouldn’t let Merkle be in charge of the third shift at the Dairy Queen.

        • flicka47

          I wouldn’t either. but the Germans want to be in charge of the $$ in the EU, and France thinks they should be the government. Noting has changed in 100 years…

  • ejochs

    But Trump is crazy for positing we should rethink our commitment to NATO? That, if things go hot, we were on our own?

    • larry

      NATO is more benefit to others, the US just pays the bulk of the bill and blood, 80% plus last I heard

      • flicka47

        Yes and no. We’re no doubt carrying the freight, but what happens if we “withdraw” from Europe and it all goes to h*ll? Think both WWI and WWII. The cost to fight their wars then is even higher than if hopefully by our presence now we prevent that from happening.

        • CapitalHawk

          As an American, I’m not worried about a repeat of WWI or WWII. While the USA suffered in each conflict, we suffered very little compared to the other combatants. And in the end, the USA emerged as, by far, the strongest power on the planet.
          On the other hand, if I were a European, I would be terrified of a repeat of WWI or WWII.

        • John Tyler

          And what was the result of WWI, a war the USA had no business getting into?
          Lenin, Stalin and Hitler; the former two setting the stage for Mao and Ho, and Stalin and Hitler setting the stage for WWII.

          Stalin , Lenin and Mao caused the deaths of 100,000,000 people.

          Yep, WWI was a great victory for the USA , the UK and France.

          What did the USA gain?? All of Eastern Europe under the heel of Stalin for 45 years . Stalin had already exterminated 20 to 50 million people BEFORE WWII even started !!!

          Washington and Hamilton both warned about getting involved in the affairs of foreign nations. Boy, were they right about that !!!

          By the way, how many world wars have Chile, Argentina, Spain, and Brazil gotten involved in ? (and I don’t mean declaring war at the end of the conflicts)

  • Hold a bake sale.


  • Brutus974

    On a positive note, Germany’s not going to up and kill 40+ million people while attempting to exterminate a race anytime soon.

  • Will

    The Bundeswehr was become a joke in just 20 years.

  • John Tyler

    Soon Germany will join Austria as a neutral nation. This will suit Russia just fine and probably the vast majority of Germans as well, given their dislike of the USA and their strong affinity for socialism.
    If Germany goes, you can say auf wiedersehen to NATO ( a paper tiger, anyway you slice it).

    The Finns, Poles, Georgians, Ukrainians and the Baltic Nations understand the Russian mind set, but frankly they are totally on their own. NATO is a joke. And “Western” military assistance if needed is a pipe dream.
    Just ask the Ukrainians.

    Ironically, the French may wind up all alone in Western Europe with a potent defense force.
    The UK; well, they seem determined to totally dismantle whatever is left of their military.

  • Ivar Ivarson

    Merkel should just surrender to Putin and get it over with.

  • In the IDF I don’t even remember having the concept of free time. Sure, there were windows of time in between tasks, guard duty and what not when nobody had anything for you to do. So we were sitting around, trying to catch some sleep or whatever, but I don’t think it occurred to anyone that there should be a separation between work-day and rest. You were lucky if you got the weekend off.

    Of course, you can’t compare a professional army with an army of conscripts, but then our officers who signed on for longer service than they “needed” worked harder than anyone else, and slept less.

    Perhaps this is an advantage of an army of very young conscripts – for a set amount of years the army “owns” you and you’re just grateful to get some uninterrupted sleep once in a while, while being paid peanuts. In a professional army soldiers may have families of their own and probably try to lead somewhat normal lives and enjoy reasonable salaries, making the whole thing less efficient and at greater cost.

    With that said, it doesn’t seem like the Germans, or many other Europeans, have found a reasonable balance between “workers’ rights” and the needs of an army for proper defense. Any future EU army will be a mess of bureaucracy, inefficient, expensive and ultimately small. As many, if not most, current European armies it will exist more on paper than in terms of actual capability. Frankly, I don’t see Putin overly worried about this pan-EU army and I don’t think Russian soldiers enjoy the benefits of overtime rules for that matter either.

    • Angel Martin

      whatever else it does, I bet this pan-EU army sets a new record for tooth to tail ratio.

  • larry

    I participated in many NATO war game exercises in Germany. We always worked until end of exercise (endex). My unit’s mission was to survive and operate (Forward RADAR air control) as long as possible. On at least 2 occasions we put in over 30 hours straight. I can’t imagine pausing the battle because of overtime.

  • NormB

    Union rules? Is this why the Wehrmacht was stopped at the eastern front?

    Let’s hope Trump keeps at least ONE promise and stops funding these a$$holes in the EU who aren’t paying for their own fracking self-defense (overtime my white Irish a$$).

    I spent three years in Bavaria in the early 80s under the constant threat of having to pack up our TA50 and decon gear and hit the road in under 6 hours to race to the Fulda gap to keep the Rooskies at bay and do Nuc-Bio-Chem cleanup as necessary and these worthless “übliche Truppe” can’t complete an EXERCISE because of “union rules”?

    What have the Germans become – besides a bunch of girly-men who squat to pee and wear eye makeup to match their scarves – if they can’t even do a fracking EXERCISE for the love of Pete (or Dieter as the case may be but don’t ask or tell or Detlev will get jealous).

    Well, that’s not the worst thing. The WORST thing would be running out of beer. (Das Schlimmste ist, wenn das Bier alle ist).

    Screw Europa. Give it to the ‘slims.

  • Rick Caird

    LOL. I wonder what the German politicians will do if they are attacked and their military can only fight (or defend) from 9-5. The would probably be still debating when the country falls to the duchy of Grand Fenwick (The Mouse that Roared)..

  • Corlyss

    The Germans couldn’t sit around and guzzle beer on overtime? Gee, how unimaginative of them.

  • pandainc

    Well Hut, Two, friggin three, four. 41 hour work week and no more as there’s no bucks for O/T. Too bad Hitler didn’t have those limitations — we could have done them in in a year instead of four.

    We need out of NATO. This is a really bad joke.

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