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Beware of Greeks Bearing Debts
Wikileaks Produces Unity in Europe—Against the IMF
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  • Pete

    Earth to Mr. Mead. The IMF is just as corrupt and elitist as the bureaucrats running the EU. Both organizations like playing god with other people’s money.

  • Andrew Allison

    First intelligent discussion of the Wikileaks “scandal” that I’ve read.

  • CapitalHawk

    WRM says the US isn’t playing a useful role in the Greek crisis. WRM thinks that the IMF is playing a somewhat useful role in the Greek crisis. WRM apparently doesn’t think that the IMF is an arm of the US government, but it is.

  • f1b0nacc1

    The collapse of the EU (speed that day!) does not threaten vital US interests, rather it advances them.

    • Jim__L

      I disagree. While propping up Europe as it stands may be impossible because of its self-destructive demographics (caused by its anti-motherhood 2nd/3rd wave social order, and to a lesser extent socialism), the world would be far better off with NATO than the Caliphate.

      • f1b0nacc1

        Perhaps so, but my world would be better off with me as a billionaire aristocrat with the sexual capacity of a rutting rhino as well. My ideal world is impractical, and Europe surviving for much longer is equally unlikely.

        Let us be honest, a quick and catastrophic EUnick collapse will provide a useful object lesson to some, and weaken the support of those who cannot or will not see where the European path leads. This isn’t a very ‘nice’ observation, but it is certainly true, and that is absolutely in the interest of the US, far more I think than the continued existence of these petty, hectoring pseudo-states that we continue to prop up. As for NATO, if anything it compromises our national security by chaining us to a corpse (a lovely phrase that the Germans used to describe their relationship with the Austro-Hungarians during WWI), and forces us to provide security while sacrificing freedom of choice in our foreign policy.

        Finally…why do you think the alternative to Europe as it is will necessarily be a Caliphate? Perhaps it will be (after a very ugly transition, I suspect) a fascist dystopia or maybe a luddite backwater. Perhaps it might even pull back from the bring and regain its vitality and move forward? Unlikely, but certainly an option….the threat of a caliphate I suspect is far overstated.

        Let us leave them to their future…the value of Europe left in the person of our ancestors, and they are likely finished. Let them save themselves, or doom themselves…perhaps their purpose it to provide us with an example?

        • Jim__L

          You have some good points, although I’m not sure Europe as a nuclear-equipped fascist dystopia would be to anyone’s advantage.

          • f1b0nacc1

            I rather doubt that the EUnicks could bestir themselves to acquire nukes. Oh Poland perhaps, and possibly one or two other states (and France and the UK already have them of course), but the rest?

            As for fascist dystopias….give them a few years….

          • Jim__L

            Fascist France with Nukes? Fascist England? (Communist independent Scotland?)

            These are not happy thoughts.

          • f1b0nacc1

            With or without nukes, these aren’t happy thoughts (I had relatives in France during the 20s and 30s and I assure you, their tales of life there were chilling), but I hardly see them as materially worse than serious security threats to the US. To each other, that is a different matter, but I am not terribly concerned about that right now.

            Please don’t misunderstand me, I am not pointing to the decay and collapse of Europe as a good thing to be wished for, but if they (the EUnicks) are unwilling to take steps to prevent it themselves, perhaps it is time that we let them have the future that they obviously wish…

          • Jim__L

            Eh, keep fighting the good fight, win or lose.

          • f1b0nacc1

            Perhaps, but when the EUnicks themselves won’t engage in the struggle, I don’t see it as a worthwhile use of resources. We have many calls upon us, perhaps we should consider prioritizing

  • CapitalHawk

    Separate from my other comment – why does the US need to play a role in solving the immigration and debt problems of Europe? The USA has had immigration issues along its southern border for years and no one (that I know of) suggested that Europe should somehow “play a positive role” in addressing the problem. Puerto Rico, a US Territory has severe debt problems, but no one (that I know of) has suggested that Europe should somehow “play a positive role” in addressing that problem either. I have always been told (by Europeans no less) that they are even more advanced than we are in the USA, but am I now to believe that they are sitting at the kiddie table and have been all along?

    • Tom

      Pretty much, yeah.

    • Jim__L

      The current state of Europe is better than the Caliphate of Europe.

      And yeah, they’ve been sitting at the kiddie table all along. The “advancement” is just another pretense — a sop to the egos of our lesser cousins, sustained by the fact that they still bear the nationalities of our mutual forebears.

      A German once had an unpleasant epiphany. Germans tend to look down on Italians — sure, they were the Roman Empire once, but what have they done lately to impress anyone? But then, he realized that Americans look down on Europeans in exactly the same way.

  • Charlie Frost

    Let Europe fail the way that currently is. Only nationalism will solve that crisis by generating new competition amongst the states again.
    The fear is it could lead to anther war. I say it’ll be war either way if they simply continue down the path they’re on now which is the way to fiscal insolvency of the EU.

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