Persecuting Christians in China
China’s Churches Are Under Siege
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  • Jim__L

    So, no reference to the Tai Ping rebellion?

    (Seriously, a little bit of heresy-scourging could have saved a world of hurt, back then.)

    I’m a little surprised that the Chinese don’t try to make Lutheranism the state church, what with its strong sense of going along with government.

  • Government Drone

    Jim_L: “I’m a little surprised that the Chinese don’t try to make Lutheranism the state church, what with its strong sense of going along with government.”
    Between the official “Three-Self Patriotic Movement” & the official “Catholic” organization, the government has indeed been trying to make a good, safe, state-approved Church. But it seems that both these set-ups often become cover for the “real” underground churches.

    • Jim__L

      What blows me away is the fact that Rome and Beijing were recently (and may still be) re-enacting the Investiture Controversy, over whether the gov’t or the papacy gets to appoint bishops.

      I think the resolution back then was that the gov’t gives the bishop his staff, and Rome gives him his stole… not sure if that works today, but it might be worth a try.

      • Government Drone

        I think one factor in the original Investiture issue was that the local emperor/king/prince would give the bishop a fief that was technically not a Church property, but some secular holding; this would provide an income for the maintenance of the diocese. Should said bishop leave office, would the property revert back to the local government or would it be part of the Church? And with a lot of clergy closely involved in European governments of the Middle Ages (as the most reliable source of clerks & lawyers), it was often quite prudent for the Church to discuss possible new bishops with the local prince.

        This occurred even in the United States; the first US bishop (appointed 1784) was a matter that the Vatican discussed with an American diplomat. Later on, after 1788 or so, when the present Constitution came into effect, the Federal government said this was not a matter in its jurisdiction & told the Vatican to discuss the matter with the various State(s) where the diocese was located. At this time, there was only 1 Catholic see in the states, Baltimore, & probably the prospect of getting all 13 states to agree on the same person as Bishop was something that even Vatican diplomats felt to be too challenging, & after that Rome simply appointed bishops & created sees without any consultation with US civil authorities.

        America was quite the exception till fairly recent times; well into the 20th century the Vatican negotiated new Concordats (the names of these church-state agreements over their respective jurisdictions) with various countries, & for all I know there may still be some in force.

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