La Serenissima Gets Surly
Venetians Vote (Unofficially) for Independence
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  • Andrew Allison

    Actually, 55% of the 89% who voted support independence.

    • Enemy Leopard

      I hate to (continue to) sound nitpicky, but the author had it right:

      “Organisers said that of a total of 2.36 million votes cast, out of a total of 3.7 million qualified voters, 2.1 million voted for independence and a quarter of a million voted against.”

      As the the British spelling, SIC.

      • Andrew Allison

        The author writes, “in a referendum with 89 percent support.” thereby confusing the voter turnout with the results:
        “Over 89 percent of residents in Italy’s Veneto region have voted in an unofficial referendum in favor of independence . . . . More than 55 percent of voters said they would prefer an independent Veneto”

        • Enemy Leopard

          Perhaps the problem here is that the two linked articles disagree. The numbers that I quoted from the Telegraph are clear: The voter turnout was 64% and the vote went 89% in favor of independence, yielding a total of 57% of registered voters who voted for independence and 43% who either didn’t vote or voted against independence. However, the Daily Mail makes different, and self-contradictory, claims.

          • Andrew Allison

            I think the problem is that the sources you cite only read the headline of the original one: http://rt.com/news/venice-votes-independence-italy-585/

          • Enemy Leopard

            For crying out loud, I try to be precise when I make empirical claims. The article you link to is less informative than the one in the Telegraph, because it doesn’t include any vote totals. The totals on the Wikipedia page about the vote yield essentially the same result: 89% of those who voted supported independence. See:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venetian_online_referendum,_2014

            That page also cites its sources, which I’m not going to bother delving into because they’re in Italian. Unless you can show that these vote totals are substantially wrong, there’s nothing left to discuss.

          • Andrew Allison

            You are, more-or-less, correct
            VALID VOTES: 2,360,235, accounting for 63.23% of those entitled to vote
            YES: 2,102,969, equal to 89.10% of the valid votes cast
            NO: 257 266, accounting for 10.90% of the valid votes cast
            NOT VALID VOTES: 6,815, corresponding to 0.29% of the valid votes cast

  • Dan

    68.5% of their income in taxes? Good Grief, that seems to require more than just a strongly worded referendum if you ask me.

    • Andrew Allison

      Social Democracy at work. Well illustrated by http://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-states-to-be-a-taxpayer/2416/

      • Dan

        You don’t have to tell me, I just moved to CT…. from NY…. by choice…. well, wife’s choice but same thing =)

    • Jim__L

      How would the rest of Europe respond if their own cash cows started bolting from the milking shed? I suspect that the EU would make life difficult for Venetian independence, unless there’s some form of “free city” arrangement that pays taxes directly to Brussels…

      • Andrew Allison

        There’s no way that the EU will permit spin-offs from current members to join. No EU, no Euro. This was made clear with respect to the upcoming referendum on Scottish independence. If Scotland we allowed in, Catalonia would be close behind, the Basques behind them, etc.

        It’s sort of like not being able to create a new US State from an existing one (something which the proponents of the sextification of CA appear to have overlooked).

        • Jim__L

          If Brussels offered some form of “free city” membership model (that included direct tax payments to Brussels) in parallel with its nation-state model of membership, it would be interesting to see whether Brussels or national capitals had more clout.

          Currently, you’re probably right that nations have more clout. In the future? I’m not so sure.

          • Andrew Allison

            I fear that you have confused Venice and Ventano: no city has proposed independent statehood. The Ventano question is particularly relevant since the region contributes much more to what is laughingly referred to as the Italian “government” than it receives.

            The EU membership is faced not just with the threat of nationalistic enclaves, but of prosperous ones spinning off from their parent countries. It’s not going to happen.

  • free_agent

    It could get interesting if Venice, Turin, and Milan start to agitate together…

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