Putin/Yanukovich
A Lose/Lose Outcome

Whatever happens in Ukraine, if Putin thinks he has won, Russia will have lost.

Published on: December 8, 2013
Andrew Wood is associate fellow with the Russia and Eurasia Programme at Chatham House, and served in the British Embassy in Moscow from 1964–66, 1979–82 and 1995–2000, the last as Ambassador.
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  • Kevin

    This talk of Russia’s national interest is naive. There is

    • Nick Koblov

      I dont think thats Putin really cares about liberalism, democracy and free speaches in Ukraine. He thinks about money. Yeah, Russia will resets old contracts with Ukraine with zero custom duties, because of changing their standarts to european ones. As for me, as a russian i really doesnt understand why should i pay my fees to Ukraine to became European country. I want thats my fees will go to medical care, to my parents pension…

      • Defenseur

        You’re right!..He thinks about money and this is very good. Because Russia has become a country with the lowest external debts and a surplus in the budget. Unemployment is not high.Pensions obtained earlier than anywhere else in 55 years. Scandinavian countries have the retirement age – 67 years(!). Of course the lower limit of the pension cost is only 200 euros. But this solution for several years. We have to think if Russia will not spend money on gas exports to Ukraine at prices lower than in Russia, pensions will increase.!

      • pantherblue

        Well if you don’t want your “fees” going to Ukraine you and your fellow citizens should let Putin know.

  • Kevin

    This talk of Russia’s national interest is naive. There is Putin’s interest and that’s really all that matters. He certainly does not want a Ukraine that would spread liberal ideas to Russia, a poor impoverished Ukraine that is dominated by oligarchs and open to Russian domination is fine by him.

    • Nick Koblov

      I dont think thats Putin really cares about liberalism, democracy and free speaches in Ukraine. He thinks about money. Yeah, Russia will resets old contracts with Ukraine with zero custom duties, because of changing their standarts to european ones. As for me, as a russian i really doesnt understand why should i pay my fees to Ukraine to became European country. I want thats my fees will go to medical care, to my parents pension…

  • Александр Соколов

    Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah

    • pantherblue

      Thank you for your articulate response.

  • Александр Соколов

    Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah

  • Elf

    As always, a word about the fact that Ukraine has huge preferences from Russia, a word that in fact the Russian authorities virtually silent that Putin has openly declared that Ukraine let do what he wants …

    Solid demagoguery and lies!

  • Elf

    As always, a word about the fact that Ukraine has huge preferences from Russia, a word that in fact the Russian authorities virtually silent that Putin has openly declared that Ukraine let do what he wants …

    Solid demagoguery and lies!

  • Defenseur

    Very interesting what will happened to US reaction if Mexico will unite with China or Russia! It seems US will do everything to stop this process even it will be like democratic decission of people in Mexico!..Everbody in US and EU have to understand that Ukraine has different group of population that are devided historicaly – western ukranians who want to be in EU (very aggressive to Russia, often with Nazi ideology; eastern ukranians (mostly russian speaking), the biggest part, who wants to cooperate with Russia just because half of their families are still living in Russia territory; and south ukranians ( Jews and tatars) who also have very stable kinship to their relatives in Russia. And what will happen if EU and US will divide these families? It looks like there will be civil war!…And question!…Who from the world democratic countries wants the war in Europe?

    • Cyril Sapla

      russan speaking is BY FAR not the the biggest. And being russian-speaking does not make them want to sell themselves off to Russia. They are most passive part of society – yes. They have never spoken themselves, only corrupt thieves are speaking in their nnames trying to benefit from Moscow.

      • Defenseur

        Of course, small groups do revolutions. Even the Bolsheviks were a small group that staged a coup. But even the Bolsheviks had puppeteers from the U.S. and Europe. Now, as you call “active part” is small part of people mainly from western Ukraine. So we also need to understand only – who are the puppeteers?)))

        • Sergey Golosun

          Guess Cyril belongs to “active part” ;))
          I probably belong to the “passive part” because have a well paid job. :)) Think before you become a revolutionary must try to get an education

        • pantherblue

          I guess they had to depopulate the entire western Ukraine to fill the streets of Kyiv with hundreds of thousands of people over the last couple of weeks. Those puppeteers are busy!

    • Sergey Golosun

      Fully agree with Defenseur. I was born in South-East part of Ukraine where people speak only russian.

      • pantherblue

        What does language have to do with trade relations? So south-east Ukraine can only have economic relations with Russia? Here’s a tip. The Russian-speaking oligarchs there sell their products to Europe as well.

    • pantherblue

      Why the hysteria? The EU has lots of agreements with countries around the world and membership for Ukraine is not envisioned for years, if ever. And normal international agreements don’t affect “kinship” to relatives across borders. And both Russia and Ukraine are members of the WTO but it was Russia that started “problems” with Ukrainian products like chocolate, just like with Georgian or Moldovan wine. And many Russian speakers in Ukraine want an EU agreement as well. And by the way Mexico and Canada trade with everybody around the globe in addition to having close economic ties with the U.S. In fact Canada is just about to sign a comprehensive agreement with the EU and you don’t have Americans mouthing all over the internet screaming “How dare they!” What accounts for this psychotic need by some Russians to put a fence around their neighbors and snarl at everybody else to keep out?

  • Defenseur

    Very interesting what will happened to US reaction if Mexico will unite with China or Russia! It seems US will do everything to stop this process even it will be like democratic decission of people in Mexico!..Everbody in US and EU have to understand that Ukraine has different group of population that are devided historicaly – western ukranians who want to be in EU (very aggressive to Russia, often with Nazi ideology; eastern ukranians (mostly russian speaking), the biggest part, who wants to cooperate with Russia just because half of their families are still living in Russia territory; and south ukranians ( Jews and tatars) who also have very stable kinship to their relatives in Russia. And what will happen if EU and US will divide these families? It looks like there will be civil war!…And question!…Who from the world democratic countries wants the war in Europe?

    • Cyril Sapla

      russan speaking is BY FAR not the the biggest. And being russian-speaking does not make them want to sell themselves off to Russia. They are most passive part of society – yes. They have never spoken themselves, only corrupt thieves are speaking in their nnames trying to benefit from Moscow.

      • Defenseur

        Of course, small groups do revolutions. Even the Bolsheviks were a small group that staged a coup. But even the Bolsheviks had puppeteers from the U.S. and Europe. Now, as you call “active part” is small part of people mainly from western Ukraine. So we also need to understand only – who are the puppeteers?)))

  • Sergey Golosun

    Authoritarianism? 🙂 Oh shit, attention! “Bloody Putin” is overhere
    again. Hide the children, he eat them. “What the cooperation with
    Ukraine should be in Moscow’s opinion? Hmm… 🙂 Is it really your
    business? Andrew, if you forget the stamps of your State Department
    write honestly: ” Russia does not want to have our Libya scenario on
    borders and does not want US bases around after that”.

  • Sergey Golosun

    Authoritarianism? 🙂 Oh shit, attention! “Bloody Putin” is overhere
    again. Hide the children, he eat them. “What the cooperation with
    Ukraine should be in Moscow’s opinion? Hmm… 🙂 Is it really your
    business? Andrew, if you forget the stamps of your State Department
    write honestly: ” Russia does not want to have our Libya scenario on
    borders and does not want a new US base after that”.

  • Vadim Dementev

    another blatant lie, Ukraine conducted many surveys and they show that in Europe and roughly flat against the number of citizens ‘democratic’ America always spit on those who are against its interests, democracy and freedom for you long dirty dirty tool to achieve their goals. Standard of living in Russia at eight times more than in Ukraine and of dissent no one and will not like you were not looking for it.

    • pantherblue

      This comment is incomprehensible.

  • Vadim Dementev

    another blatant lie, Ukraine conducted many surveys and they show that in Europe and roughly flat against the number of citizens ‘democratic’ America always spit on those who are against its interests, democracy and freedom for you long dirty dirty tool to achieve their goals. Standard of living in Russia at eight times more than in Ukraine and of dissent no one and will not like you were not looking for it.

  • Nick Koblov

    A single day of Russian president Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin:
    6.00 Eating at least 100 Syrian childs.
    8.00 Traveling to Kremlin and jailing 1k opposition members
    9.00 Harming actions to US
    12.00 Lunch – jailing at least 100 gays, 10 gays died.
    13.00 Harming actions to EU.
    16.00 Dzudo with european leaders.
    18.00 Dinner. Hes reading some newspapers and closing over 100 indepenent mass media.
    19.00. Harming actions to post USSR countries.
    23.00. Going to sleep and killing a single journalist.
    3.00. Some sweeties with stealng 1bln dollars for a next day.

    • Sergey Golosun

      Entry for the article: “Hello dear zombies. I’m Andrew Wood and today I will tell you about the Bloody Putin and Guileful Russia ( or Evil Empire). Yes, I know you’re tired, but your brain has to remember that. Be sure we will check as you have learned the knowledge we will listen your phone and check your email box. So I begin to tell ….”

  • Nick Koblov

    A single day of Russian president Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin:
    6.00 Eating at least 100 Syrian childs.
    8.00 Traveling to Kremlin and jailing 1k opposition members
    9.00 Harming actions to US
    12.00 Lunch – jailing at least 100 gays, 10 gays died.
    13.00 Harming actions to EU.
    16.00 Dzudo with european leaders.
    18.00 Dinner. Hes reading some newspapers and closing over 100 indepenent mass media.
    19.00. Harming actions to post USSR countries.
    23.00. Going to sleep and killing a single journalist.
    3.00. Some sweeties with stealng 1bln dollars for a next day.

  • profaner vulgar

    When the U.S. is fall to pieces ..
    I amI will be happy reread such articles …
    http://www.usdebtclock.org/

    • pantherblue

      But if the U.S. falls to pieces what will happen to Alla Borisovna’s apartments in Miami Beach? And all that other property and bank accounts here owned by Russians?

      • profaner vulgar

        I am less worried about the whole mansion Alla Borisovny and stolen money oligarchs. If this happens then you can call it even “the Lord’s punishment” for those who in time of troubles stole all that arm across.

  • profaner vulgar

    Yeah, did not know that the Nazi and fascist core of protesters on Independence fighting for Russia. But the west is probably best seen ..

  • profaner vulgar

    What I’ve always moved by a spontaneous meetings, concerned citizens, this professional banners, posters and leaflets, printed the typographical way.
    Only Aborigines had occupied Wall Street that there markers on a piece of cardboard to paint, probably all the money spent on posters “color revolutions” and the American revolutionaries did not receive

  • profaner vulgar

    Ultimately, creative destruction is better than unreliable support life.

    Terrible right idea! All ascetics of of science experimented primarily on themselves. You already have an example of Detroit. On stage in Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, Washington – a huge scope for experimentation! So roll up your sleeves, shovel in hand, and – go ahead! Then share your experience.

    • pantherblue

      All of the cities you mentioned with the exception of Detroit are doing very well. But then President Putin mentioned the challenges and problems faced by “mono-industry” cities in Russia in his recent speech, didn’t he?

  • Defenseur

    Maybe someone is unhappy that China has already received a concession land in the Crimea for 30 billion dollars from the Ukrainian government? ..Imagine!.A huge Chinese industrial area in front of the nose of Europe! Maybe this is the reason of this new Maidan?

    • pantherblue

      Where did you get these details? It’s supposedly not in Crimea but in central Ukraine–Dnipropetrovsk evidently–and it’s not for industry but for agricultural and “30 billion dollars” might be an overstatement.

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