Born of a WHAT?!
Published on: December 27, 2009
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  • khosrow

    Chapter 3: V 59- AL-E-IMRAN (THE FAMILY OF ‘IMRAN) – (from Quran)
    Truly, the likeness of (prophet) Jesus with Allah (God), is as the likeness of Adam, he created him from dust then he said to him “be” and he was. (59)
    Chapter 19: V 16-21 & 35 – MARYAM (MARY) – from Quran
    And mention in the book, Mary, how she withdrew from her people to an eastern place and she took a veil apart from them; (16)
    We sent to her our angel (Gabriel) in the resemblance of a perfect human. (17)
    (and when she saw him) she said: ‘I take refuge in the merciful from you! If you are fearful. ‘(18)
    ‘I am the messenger of your lord, ‘ he replied, ‘and have come to give you a pure boy. ‘(19)
    ‘How shall I bear a son, ‘ she answered, ‘when I am not touched by a human and not unchaste? ‘(20)
    “Even so” he replied, “as such your lord has said: ‘easy it is for me. And we shall make him a sign to mankind and a mercy from us. It is a matter decreed.'” (21)
    It is not for Allah to take a son! Exaltations to him! When he decrees a thing he only says: ‘be, ‘ and it is. (35)
    URL: http://www.parsquran.com/data/show.php?quantity=&lang=eng&sura=19&ayat=21&user=eng&tran=1

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  • Lee Ruby

    You’ve forgot another, very important thread in the string of belief in the Virgin Birth: sex is bad, so Jesus could not have been born thereby. Though attitudes have changed more recently, traditionally the larger Churches have accepted the view that physical desire were inherently sinful, that it is an attribute of Man’s fallen state, and that the ideal marriage were a celibate one (hence the Catholic teaching that Joseph _never_ knew Mary, ever). Though not in the arguments of the better theologians, on the popular level I think there was a great connexion between the sinfulness of sex and Original Sin, that sex was the sinful transmitter of that dubious malady.

    Though I am against a modern tendency to worship sex (one should not worship anything, viz sub re. camels) and expect far too much from it and associated love, I find your not mentioning this a bit of a whitewash…no, not just a bit, I think it deceptive. You should no more deny that Christianity went well with the doctrine of the Virgin Birth because large chunks of it hated sex than a good Jew should deny that God commanded his ancestors to slaughter entire peoples and their cattle, or a good Muslim that Islam’s spread was strongly aided by the Sword.

    I’ll admit that 1.) I am not a camel-swallower, but that it seems to me that 2.) a virgin birth is a gnat only in comparison with a camel.

  • Arthur Trafford

    Is your Messiah a real or counterfeit Messiah?

    My Messiah is the same Messiah that is related to King David (of the Davidic Covenant); and the Messiah who walked with and taught the Apostles of Yeshua The Christ . My Messiah is 100 % human and 100 % God; whereas most Christians really only believe in a Messiah that is 50% human and 50% God (and they don’t even realize it)!!!

    The Jews know that their Messiah is a blood relative of King David and of the tribe of Judah. The “Seed” of David reference in the Bible refers to a human male producing children. The Creator God only gives the responsibility for human reproduction to Adam & Eve and their descendants (which including you and me) to thousands of generations and God doesn’t change or alter the law of human reproduction, not even for the Messiah (especially since the Bible says that the Messiah is like us physically—but sinless).

    I now know that Joseph’s “Seed” is what caused Mary to be pregnant with the child Jesus. If Joseph isn’t the biological father, then Joseph adopting Jesus isn’t going to make Jesus related to King David or his descendants. In the same way Sarah adopting the child that Abraham fathered, didn’t make him the child of God’s Promise, but only a child of passion and lust. Isaac was the child of promise and not his older half-brother.

    Christians will state that Jesus is 100% God and 100% human. And that Jesus has a body “Just like ours”. I am pretty sure that the person reading this letter has a human mother and a human father who God used to give them life (which makes me like the person who is reading this letter). If you are born of a virgin, you are not “just like me” !!! If Joseph didn’t get Mary pregnant then Jesus is 50% human because of Mary; and Jesus is 50% God because of God.

    When we humans are conceived, God puts a human “CREATED SPIRIT” in the unborn children that we are. When Jesus was conceived by Joseph and Mary, God did something different to THEIR child; instead of putting a human “created spirit” in Jesus, God puts His own Spirit into the child Jesus!!! Which means Jesus now has a 100% human body (because of Joseph’s seed and Mary’s womb) and 100% God, because there is “no” human “created spirit” of a person in Jesus, but only the “Spirit of God”!!!

    God destroyed ancient Israel because of their unbelief, killing the prophets of God and killing their Promised Messiah and ours! I realize that all humans ever born, are responsible for the death of the Messiah; but God chose Israel to be the Spiritual leaders to instruct and guide us to know and serve the One True Living God of this world.

    It appears that modern day Israel also isn’t able to grasp the concept of a ruling King and suffering servant Messiah. I understand why the Jews reject the Christian Messiah. The Jews know that the Promised Messiah is a blood relative of King David. If they had computers and DNA testing back thousands of years ago, and you tested King David, his son, grandson and all others in his family tree, including Joseph, Mary and Jesus; in a court of law it can be proved scientifically that Jesus is LITERALLY of the seed of David. Not a step-child of Joseph (and therefore half human and not biologically related to King David through Joseph).

    Recently I was writing to a Jewish Christian I know, and I stated that after the virgin birth that I believe that Joseph and Mary had a “Normal” marriage like other married couples (companionship, sex and children) and therefore she didn’t stay a virgin her whole life, as is taught by some people.

    I was surprised to hear that this Jewish Christian stated that the doctrine of the virgin birth was added to scripture at a time in history after all the apostles, their children and grandchildren are all dead and before the Protestant Reformation happened. Paul stated that after his death that wolves would come in and not spare the flock. I use to think that the Jews were being stubborn and rebellious for not accepting the Messiah Jesus Christ. But it turns out that the Christian dogma is what the Jews are rejecting.

    The Apostle Paul wrote 13 books in the New Testament. Paul was the Theologian type and he never mentioned the virgin birth. Luke was a physician and wouldn’t be qualified to teach Theology. Of all the miracles that Paul writes about, “you would think” that he would mention it as the greatest miracle of “motherhood” and just as exciting, dramatic and important as the raising of the dead!!! Not even Jesus mentioned a supposed virgin birth, or a “perpetual” virgin Mary. His silence screams deception.

    Adam, Eve, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Paul the Apostle, King David, Judas, Joseph, Mary, and you and me have been deceived by self, Satan and others. Promoting the virgin birth will get you a bad grade in a Logic 101 class, and reveal you are spiritually blind to the truth that Satan has lied to our Christian leaders throughout history.

    The concept of a virgin or non-virgin birth of the Promised Messiah is conflicting and antithetical to each other. If you have a personal relationship with and commitment to Jesus Christ, your opinion of the virgin / or non-virgin birth does not affect your salvation.

    May we be more concerned about knowing the TRUTH and less concerned about defending our religious traditions that make us feel insecure, and fearful if we question there validity: And presuming we are sinning against God if we change our opinion on how the Messiah became human.

    John 8: 36

    Sincerely,

    Arthur Trafford

  • Yahya(John the Baptist)the son of Zacharias is the father of Isa ( Jseus).

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