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Identity Politics
At UVA, a Microcosm of Liberalism’s Woes
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  • Observe&Report

    With Republicans in control of the presidency, congress, and a record number of governorships and state legislatures, it’s only a matter of time before this “boutique cultural liberalism” currently strangling American academia like intellectual poison ivy is defunded into oblivion.

    • M Snow

      I wish I shared your optimism.

      • Observe&Report

        After the Brexit vote and Trump’s election, the tide is finally turning. I think a modicum of optimism is in order.

        • f1b0nacc1

          Support for “higher education” (really subsidies for the University-Industrial Complex) is something of a sacred cow in America, especially among the middle-class that see it as a ticket to a better life. Until this is exposed as the fraud that it is (and we aren’t there yet), such support will continue, and there is little chance of the subsidies being withdrawn in any meaningful way. As long as the money (somebody else’s money, to be sure) flows, the Lefties will run riot.

          This is why we need, as a first step, to reverse Duke v Griggs, and start serious efforts to end the power of universities and professional societies as legal gatekeepers. Once that is done, the rest will follow quite quickly.

          • Curious Mayhem

            The first signs of change in attitudes have been apparent for the last few years. It’s not yet a big enough revulsion.

          • f1b0nacc1

            You make the point yourself….it is a big hurdle, not impossible, but difficult…we will get there….

      • Curious Mayhem

        The difficult step of removing higher “education”‘s legal, financial, and social status is a big hurdle — not impossible to get over, but difficult.

  • LarryD

    The trend started back in the 1970s, when the New Left replaced the Old Left. It is a class thing, I don’t see it ending until these people are spit out of power and influence. There are a couple of ways that could happen, but I don’t think a return to Traditional Marxism will help the Democrats politically.

    • Beauceron

      See, I think is was a class thing. It isn’t any longer– or at least it isn’t primarily class any longer.
      I think after the Soviet Union collapsed, it became difficult to credibly call for a Marxist style system. So the Left changed their platform to one of identity politics. Gone were the days of stripping away culture and saying race didn’t matter. Now everything revolves around race and gender issues. It’s why I worry about mass immigration. You combine the huge shift in demographics with the identity politics of the Left, it does not take a genius to see the end game.

      • Johnathan Swift Jr.

        Yes, but underneath the veneer of identity politics is always the same radical egalitarianism, centralized state control and the rule of “experts.” New Left, Old Left, same left. It seems to always end in bloodshed.

        • Beauceron

          Actually, that’s no longer true.
          Something changed over the last decade. The very last thing that can be said about the Left is that they are egalitarian these days. They are not. Indeed, I think you could argue pretty persuasively that the Left has become a sort of racial supremacist movement. It’s just that they are People Of Color supremacists, not white supremacists.

          • LarryD

            I think the intention of the New Left has always been to lock down their privileged status by keeping everyone else down. Demonetization of the white working class is one aspect of this. Having subverted the American Marxist movement, they’ve used the patterns of socialist revolution to try and create a power base, just not based on Labor. The American working class is dangerous, it’s the likely source of future rivals to their status. But you note how lily-white the Progressive upper echelons are, even after eight years of a non-white President. Compare the upper echelons of the Republican party.

          • Beauceron

            Excellent points, Larry

        • Jim__L

          I dunno. At one point I tried to figure out the bodycount of the ”91 coup against Gorbachev… and it was surprisingly small. Like a dozen people. Half of whom were the coup plotters taking their own lives.

          So ended the Soviet Union.

    • seattleoutcast

      The only way for this get better is for the boomer tyranny to end. It is a generational war. My hope is that the universities will be so decimated that their little new mandarins will be absorbed into the working population where they can learn the realities of life.

      • Dusty Thompson

        Young people THINK that old people are stupid. Old people KNOW that young people are stupid.

        • f1b0nacc1

          I believe that it was Mark Twain (I might be mistaken) who said “When I was 20, I thought my father was the stupidest man on earth….when I was 30, I was amazed how much he had learned in only 10 years”

      • Johnathan Swift Jr.

        But the boomer New Left is on its way out. The problem is that those who they have trained are – if possible – even more radical and fascistic. The fascist speech codes and the shouting down of any contrary voice is not being down by the boomers, but in many cases students and young professors who have all been brought up with a proctologist’s view of America and Western Civilization.

        • f1b0nacc1

          The ‘New Left’ (now old…so are they the “Old New Left”?) may hate to admit it, but they had the benefit of being educated under the tyrannical society that they deplored. This means that they actually learned things like logic and critical thinking. Their successors, educated by the New Left, didn’t enjoy those benefits, and are foolish as well as ignorant.

    • Dusty Thompson

      Democrats lost America’s first Civil War because they enslaved Black people. Democrats are going to lose America’s second Civil War because they attempted to enslave everyone else…

      Not every Democrat was a KuKluxKlan member, but every KuKluxKlan member was a democrat.

      • Johnathan Swift Jr.

        True, but in the cities they have managed to create modern plantations of hopelessness and dependency.

  • Beauceron

    You want to look at them and say they’ve all gone insane.

    I read these sorts of stories– always taking place at what were once well respected academic institutions– and think that I must be a victim of some sort of gaslighting project. But I’m not. This is America now.

    I’d like to think Trump’s election signals some sort of tectonic shift, but I know it’s not. I think it’s more some last, final spasm of the old America before people like the horribles running our universities take over full control.

    • Boritz

      I fear you are correct. For liberals we are at the part of the movie where the monster that was thought dead goes on one final rampage before the heroes can go on with their lives as the credits roll.

      • Beauceron

        Well, they’re right about that, in my opinion.
        The demographics have not changed and will continue to move to favor a Democratic majority on a permanent basis. I thought it would start this year, but I was wrong. I underestimated Americans– they had some fight left in them. Don’t like the leader they chose though, but still they really surprised me.
        Nevertheless, the demographics remain unchanged and that terrible mistake, where we allowed the far left and the Chamber of Commerce right to ally and flood the country with tens of millions of people, will still undo this nation. I say that with utter sadness.

        • Gene

          Why give up so easily? Even if millions of illegals, most of them Hispanic, do exactly what the Democrats want them to do and vote D right now or in the next election, who’s to say what those people will do in 8 or 12 or 20 years if they stay and build a life here? Are they all going to be permanent Democrats forever? You don’t know that at all.

          I don’t know much about your average poor Mexican immigrant, but I’ll be honestly shocked if they have or ever will have much if anything in common with the Elizabeth Warrens, gender-studies faculty or Ivy-league snowflake SJWs who beset our nation right now. Now if someone finds a way to clone the people in those last three categories, then we really are in trouble.

          • Beauceron

            “You don’t know that at all.”

            Of course I don’t know that. Just as you don’t know that they’ll somehow miraculously become conservatives.

            However, since our education system has fully embraced the far-Left identity politics and all that entails– that all whites (all of them, children, people married to minorities with interracial children, your sweet old granma) are racist and privileged and oppress people of color (who can never be racist, of course) it does not take a genius to see where this is likely heading. It’s like some original sin being born with European ancestry burdens you with, regardless of circumstance or context or history or experience. The largest ethnic representation group in the country, La Raza (whose official motto is “For the Race, everything; for those outside the Race, nothing”), has embraced this ideology. It has infected and taken over virtually every college campus in the country. They are even teaching this in many elementary schools now (just one example http://nypost.com/2016/07/01/elite-k-8-school-teaches-white-students-theyre-born-racist/).

            I ask you, where do you think that leads?

          • Jim__L

            They have next to nothing in common with the elites.

            More of them voted for Trump than voted for Romney.

            More women voted for Trump than voted for Romney.

            We’re seeing the changes already. This trend will continue, and “Oh My God We’re” Republicans will deliver future victories to Conservatism.

          • Johnathan Swift Jr.

            Some people estimate that 2-3 million illegals voted. They can register with Obamacare with no questions asked. If they can close the border and decrease the influx by 80-90% and deport 500,000 – 1,000,000 a year, there would be a fighting chance to turn this around. One step would be a law that prevents anyone who has been caught crossing the border illegally of ever becoming a citizen. The open borders is only about votes, so we have to fight fire with fire and deport them all incrementally.

        • Johnathan Swift Jr.

          They charged the demographics for partisan political gain in the 1960s, so it is time to turn the tables. First, to steadily enforce the law and deport everyone who has overstayed their visa or crossed the border. Agressive enforcement will mean that many of the illegals will get their affairs in order and leave. If it is about demographics – and it is – then we can play the same game.

    • Disappeared4x

      “the horribles running our universities” have had control for a generation, emboldened since 2013.
      For forty years, with K-12 failing to teach civics, or ‘dead-white-man history’, or critical thinking, these ‘elite’ colleges are the final four years of brainwashing.
      In 2008, the Obama campaign specifically targeted voters under age 45, and that has not changed.

      There is no way to purge 40 years of brainwashing & echo chambers.
      The big solution to K-12 education is NOT school choice –

  • Rodney

    What amazes me is the “educated elite’s” ignorance of history. Any decent biography of Thomas Jefferson will make it clear that he made efforts to reform slavery in his younger days. After he experienced significant opposition, he recognized that he could make other reforms and improvements with less opposition, an exercise in battle picking. While it would have been good if he had been able to reform slavery, his overall accomplishments are truly extraordinary.

    • Palinurus

      Lincoln, whose formal schooling might have amounted to less than a year, saw Jefferson’s legacy in a slightly different light than our learned professors:

      “All honor to Jefferson–to the man who, in the concrete pressure of a struggle for national independence by a single people, had the coolness, forecast, and capacity to introduce into a merely revolutionary document, an abstract truth, applicable to all men and all times, and so to embalm it there, that to-day, and in all coming days, it shall be a rebuke and a stumbling-block to the very harbingers of re-appearing tyranny and oppression.”

      I hope the professors’ petition will likewise prove “a rebuke and stumbling block to … tyranny and oppression.” But the context of the letter from which the Lincoln quote was excerpted places such efforts to obscure and defame Jefferson’s “honor” in less congenial company.

      • Jim__L

        Lincoln and Jefferson both knew the value of Scripture — that body of work that you return to, no matter how far afield you have strayed.

        The pendulum is swinging these days, with the “living Constitution” nonsense being so much en vogue. There will be a Renaissance, and sooner rather than later, if UVA’s activists keep pushing.

  • gates of vienna

    I know a young woman who is a freshman there (or whatever designation the University uses for its frist year students). She and her roommate voted for Trump. They made the mistake of saying so out loud. She’s being hounded now.

    • Beauceron

      That was a huge mistake.
      This is America– and if you live in a Leftist area of the country (I live in Manhattan) you need to keep your mouth shut. It’s similar to living in the Soviet Union now. If you disagree, you do not, under any circumstances, let anyone know it unless you really trust them.

      • FriendlyGoat

        Which is not different from any left-side voter who might wish to opine at certain churches, lodges, workplaces, bars or gun clubs about “Hillary Good, Donald Bad”——hardly recommended at this time.

        • Beauceron

          That’s simply not true.
          You have any video of Hillary signs being vandalized? I can get you a dozen of Trump’s being vandalized. Were democratic headquarters firebombed or shot at? Republican’s were. Trump supporters are not beating Hillary supporters in the streets. Leftists are beating the shit out of Trump supporters. You remember people on the right rioting when Obama was elected? Yeah, me either. You remember people shouting “Not My President?” Nope.
          Can you show me of an instance where people were fired or threatened with firing because they supported a Democrat? It’s happening for those who supported Trump.
          Face it dude, your side is outright totalitarian. They are becoming more evil by the day. At what point do you look at them and say “I am a moral person; I cannot support this any longer”
          That is, of course, assuming you try to be moral.

          • FriendlyGoat

            Well, you’re seeing the reaction which goes with the prospective practice of “winner take all” politics from your side. If you want it to stop, you might need to reform Ryan, McConnell and Trump before they do any of the things they are planning to do. People most likely are not nearly as pissed as they are going to get—–but, hey, you can always moderate Republicans to the point they look good, ya know?

          • Beauceron

            So, by your response, I take it the answer to the series of questions I posed is “no.” You’d get more respect if you just admitted you were wrong.

            “If you want it to stop, you might need to reform Ryan, McConnell and Trump before they do any of the things they are planning to do.”

            Why would they do that.

            Remember what Obama and the Dems said back in 2008?

            He said “Elections have consequences” and “We won”

            It was basically, STFU, we have a majority and will do what we want.

            When the Republicans retook the House and Senate, what did Obama do?

            He said “I’ve got a pen” In other words he would skip the legislative process and just do things by executive fiat. And so he did.

            He expanded the powers of the president immensely.

            You shouted with glee when Obama changed long standing tradition.

            You had no problem with it then.

            Why shouldn’t Trump do to you what Obama did to us?

            I would remind you that we can riot too.

            And we have way more guns and way more former and current military members.

            Do you really want to play that game?

          • FriendlyGoat

            Because you, not I, have to deal with the people in Manhattan and everywhere else who are going to hate you more and more. If you are asking ME why they are going wild and yet telling them you think you have (by one tenth of one percent) a license to screw THEM over but good because you’re in a snit about Obama, well, good luck with that.
            Gotta helmet?

          • JR

            Oh, so democracy is only good when it works to elect people you want. The second it doesn’t, we are supposed to get a helmet. Wow, your scumminess just knows no bounds. B. is right. You won’t get away this time. We won, you will deal with it.

          • FriendlyGoat

            I’m already “away”. I’ve been “away” for years. Far “away”. Living modestly, loving wife and dog and goats. The computer switch with which to turn all of you guys “off” in my life is always right here. You are not pursuing me, you cannot pursue me and the coming political events are more a risk for you than me.

            As for the helmet, if you treat real people in real life like you blow off in the comment section, you’ll need one. “We won, you deal with it” is just not good talk in many neighborhoods.

          • JR

            It wasn’t a good talk when Barack Obama said it as a President of the US. Yet you remained strangely quiet. Coming political events will result in no Obamacare and lower taxes for me. I’m happy to take that risk and see where it goes.

          • Beauceron

            Oh, so it’s the Manhattanites that have been getting screwed over? You can’t possibly mean that. Get real.

            The cities have benefited tremendously from the current global economic system. Believe me, I live in one. I am one of its beneficiaries. It’s the small town and more rural areas that have really been screwed over.

            And in any case, who’s the “THEM” in your scenario that he’s screwing over? Illegal immigrants? They broke the law, they circumvented the system. They have to go back and try to get in legally. That is not getting screwed over, that’s application of the law.

          • FriendlyGoat

            YOU are the one telling me how dangerous Manhattan feels to you right now. YOU have, for that matter, the citizens of the rest of NYC to deal with. I’m sure you can go over to South Bronx or Queens and ask around whether anyone thinks Ryan-McConnell-Trump-Scalia Ghost are together a screw-over. (Take your helmet.)

            As for my comment, my “them” were “the people in Manhattan and everywhere else who are going to hate you more and more” for pushing an alignment of Republicanism down their throat. OF COURSE that includes the small towns and rural places. Reaganomics ruined their lives and it now appears Trumponomics will kill them completely dead.

          • Makaden
        • Jim__L

          If you stand up and say “Donald Trump is an a**hole” in any of the above groups — and I have — the response is going to be “Well, yeah.” Almost 90% of women (and a large chunk of men) who voted for him registered serious misgivings with the man.

          You are partially correct though, in that if you try to say “Hillary Good”, you’re likely to be laughed out of the place.

          • FriendlyGoat

            The long-term damage to come to people is from the alignment of Republicans in three branches at once. There are no “serious misgivings” which matter as excuses for whomever voted for this trifecta of political rule in America. It’s not so different from shooting one’s self and then—–THEN—-believing you’re still around to try to come up with some good reasons why you shot yourself.

          • Jim__L

            It would have been worse with Clinton. Her thought for her own convenience where national security is concerned, in the form of classified information does not even rise to the level of a bad joke. She’s visibly incompetent in what she claims is her major qualification (diplomacy), with an entire political party’s worth of apologists (and more) that hasn’t even seemed to notice that she is so.

            With Trump, at least many people are aware of his shortcomings, and (Cohen notwithstanding) will work to rectify them.

          • FriendlyGoat

            You can lie to the church about Clinton and try to make the members believe they did not just commit a grievous political error. Some of them may still receive the message until they get slapped awake by the realities around them. I was a church guy who had that experience 35 years ago with Reagan, even as his damage was tempered by O’Neill. The repeat of the lesson this time will be much faster and much harder. Give up on me, Jim. I’m not your audience.

      • gates of vienna

        Of course it was a mistake from your and my point of view. But rural VA is *not* a Leftist area of the country -down the road a ways, UVa and Charlottesville are a blue blob in a sea of red. You don’t see blue again in VA until you hit the wretched hive of scum and villany in Northern Virginia.

        She’s 18 years old, a shy country girl from a close family and the first to go to college in her family. I tried to talk her into attending a smaller, conservative college but she’s always been enamored of UVa. I was surprised she spoke up about her convictions, but during this semester she’s grown used to being ridiculed for going home to attend the annual homecoming at her church and for the fact that she spent a long weekend to go bow hunting. She’s a skilled hunter and though shy, used to speaking her mind.

        Their shunning tactics won’t work with her because she has a full life already, and she’s one of those who will be returning home after her education to get work in our area in order to be near her extended family. She wouldn’t actually live in a Lib hellhole, so the experience of the haters will be a useful interlude.

        Our son was hounded at William and Mary ten years ago – people can smell libertarians, he claims…looking back he thinks it was a maturing process. He and three other like-minded guys from his music fraternity got a suite their final year. They called it “The Refuge”.

    • FriendlyGoat

      Now is not nearly as bad a time for any individual admitting to being a minor enabler of the Trump Administration as a year from now will be. After most people discover how they lost much of the real American Pie on a permanent basis and to whom those slices went, one will less and less want to claim credit for the result. I suspect Donald Trump is at the peak of his popularity right now, because the GOP steam roller has not yet rolled in Congress and the Courts. But it is going to very soon.

  • FriendlyGoat

    Is this the future at TAI? Where “microcosm” and “miniature” (its own words) are offered to obscure the tsunami of misinformation which just overcame your whole country?

    • Tom

      The attitudes being discussed here are part and parcel of that tidal wave.

      • FriendlyGoat

        There is a difference between the toothless tidal wave of far-left thought that percolated in colleges and certain think tanks and the actual flood of power with negative consequences which just overcame us. Like I keep telling Jim, WATCH for the differences between what church people thought they voted for and what they actually get. This will all come into focus clearly in 2017.

        • JR

          toothless tidal wave? Are you kidding? The Left has been suffocating dissent for the entirety of this century. I’m sorry, but you can’t just keep shltting on people indefinitely. If you want to know who caused President Trump to come into being, look in a mirror.

          • FriendlyGoat

            I can’t. My mirror has the permanent ghost of JR in the glass, whoever the heck he even is.

          • JR

            Accepting responsibility for failure is not what Leftwingers do. You are like the rest of your brethren in that regard.

          • FriendlyGoat

            I didn’t fail. I voted for Hillary. My state went for Hillary. You need to be talking to people who voted for Trump if you see the Trump result as a failure.

          • JR

            Lol. Avoiding responsibility again. Why do you think your side lost? Why were so many pundits wrong? Explain this to me.

          • FriendlyGoat

            My side lost because of your side’s lying to your own side, which believed the lies. I’m trying to avoid calling you the detestable SOB you are insisting on being here with me, okay? We now rely upon Melania Trump (she says) to refine your online manners.

          • JR

            Attack me all you want. Continue to believe that only idiots or those who are easily misled are opposed to your politics. Bask in your moral superiority. Keep on doing what you are doing. If you don’t think your dismissive attitude is a problem, then I certainly don’t as well. Double down on what it is that you are doing. None are more blind than those who refuse to see.
            The best part of all of this is that now we have 8 years of President Trump and tax cuts. I don’t know bout you, but I’m Taxed Enough Already.

          • FriendlyGoat

            Can I count on this as a signal that I’m free of you in the comment section?

          • JR

            Count is as whatever you want. I reserve the right to make fun of your hubris and ridicule your dangerous Statist and Collectivist agenda. You can’t spew propaganda and insults and expect no outback.

          • FriendlyGoat

            Gee, just when I thought Melania was going to fix the online bullies.

          • JR

            You are the one supporting rioters. Look who the real bullies are.

          • FriendlyGoat

            I’m sitting in a quiet place, looking at “incoming” on the only form of social media I participate in. No riots here. Besides, Melania did not say she was going to reform physical rioters in the streets. She announced the words of the online world as one of her issues. Maybe you and she can correspond.

          • Tom

            No, your side lost because they decided to anoint the worst candidate you put up since Al Gore. Don’t believe me?
            John Kerry got 59 million votes in 2004.
            Clinton got 61.6 million votes in 2016, an increase of around 3%.
            George W. Bush got 62 million votes in 2004.
            Donald Trump got 60.7 million votes in 2016, a decrease of around 3%.
            Between 2004 and 2016, the population of the United States increased from 293 million to 324 million, an increase of around 10%.
            Any questions?

          • FriendlyGoat

            Tom, I’ve never had a question you could answer. There are many political questions which will become more apparent and relevant in your real life with people you really know. You can handicap the reasons with them why history is unfolding as it is.

          • Tom

            No, you’ve never had a question I answered to your satisfaction. Given that your satisfaction would require me to join a party that has clearly indicated that I can go die in a hole for all it cares, I don’t ever expect to.

          • Jim__L

            How do you make a Leftwinger? First you take a Rightwinger. Then you take away reason. And accountability.

            (With a big “thank you” to Jack Nicholson.) =)

        • Tom

          That you think this is toothless says volumes. There’s plenty of teeth, you just don’t want to see them.
          And I didn’t vote for Trump. On the other hand, neither did most of the people who cast their ballots with the GOP.

          • FriendlyGoat

            It doesn’t matter who you voted for, because we now know that the election was not decided by one vote. It matters what you support in your heart. You have consistently asked for Conservatism as administered by Republicans. Ditto most of the protestant evangelicals. You are all about to find out what it is. Stay tuned–not to me——to them.

          • Tom

            Except we weren’t going to get that anyway once Trump won the primary. You seem to be overlooking this basic fact.

          • FriendlyGoat

            No, I am not overlooking anything. You are asking me to believe that the church turned away from Trump after they found out it would be Trump. The church did no such thing. The exist polls say the evangelical church voted for Trump at perhaps 81%. This is actually heartbreaking for both the country and the church.

          • Tom

            They didn’t turn to Trump. They turned away from Clinton. You didn’t have to nominate a woman whose character flaws matched Trump’s, but you did it anyway. Not my problem.

          • FriendlyGoat

            Your PROBLEM is the future challenge to be credible to real people wherever you are. This comment section is not “reality”, you know?
            I could pass away tomorrow (or just stop writing here) and it will not relieve your duty to your real friends, family, neighbors, co-workers, and church members to know truth and speak truth. Blaming HRC for what your own party enacts is not going to sell to either people or God.

          • Tom

            Unlike you, I do not presume to know the mind of God. He will judge us both as He wills.
            And I fulfill that duty. It’s not my fault that you refuse to admit what this election was really about.

          • FriendlyGoat

            The mind of God in Christianity is not a mystery. We love our neighbors as we love ourselves and see that in a global perspective—–or we don’t. We believe John 3:16 as a simple invitation to all people everywhere from age 3 to 113—–or we don’t. We soft-pedal whatever scriptural, doctrinal or congregational confusion causes these most basic calls on our lives to be negated with but, but, but——or we don’t.

          • Tom

            Yes. So why did you vote for Clinton, who fails in all those things?

          • FriendlyGoat

            I didn’t see her as a failure in those things as a prospective president. Same with Obama. He was better at oratory but I believe she had adequate demonstrated empathy.

            This is the thing. Church people were told in their various information sources to see her as evil. I did not. Adversarial lawyer? Yes.
            Beleaguered with decades of defending against her foes and just the hardness of issues? Yes.
            Canny and calculating from that experience? Yes. Bad to the bone?
            No. I never saw or felt that.

            But, time to get over Hillary. The church bought what it bought. The church people and all other people are going to live with it for a long, long time.

          • Tom

            “No. I never saw or felt that.”

            Your discernment is lacking. Also, Trump got about seven million fewer voters than we would have if he’d maintained W’s share of the voting populace. Wonder where those seven million came from.

          • FriendlyGoat

            I’m aware of what your side “saw and felt”—-which I don’t share BECAUSE I don’t marinate myself in it. The thing is, as penalty for the pure unadulterated hatred you have all ginned up on your own side from forces both inside and outside of religion, you have elected an alignment of corporate power which is going to beat up your people as well as all people.

            Leaving Trump aside, Mitch McConnell is one of the most haughty snakes to ever inhabit the Senate. You are going to get his agenda for this planet as much as anything else because no one with any integrity is going to block it. Merry Christmas, World. The USA officially went selfish, mean and nuts.

            I’ve told both you and Jim to stop listening to me and to watch carefully how 2017 goes. It’s all I can say.

          • Tom

            Yes, which was going to happen when Clinton was elected if the Democrats had taken the House and Senate. What’s your point?

          • FriendlyGoat

            The point is the church people are—–in their frustration—–enabling the forces which caused so many of them to be frustrated in the first place, namely, diminished economic prospects for the “family values” they wish they were maintaining for themselves and others. This stems back directly to whether high-end tax cuts create living wage jobs. They don’t. They cause the opposite. This will be noticed again with more tax cuts. Nothing else can possibly happen now. With a blue Congress and White House, that wouldn’t be the case. It’s not a minor “point”.

          • Tom

            The problem being that, as we’ve gone over time and again, your belief that higher taxes create jobs is…wrong.

          • Jim__L

            How in the world do you think that Hillary would have enabled anything else??

          • FriendlyGoat

            Since it is apparent your pastor cannot fix your tendency to want to hurt people from a spirit of vengeance——or even get you to talk about anything else—– maybe you should consider a shrink.

          • Jim__L

            Ok, I’ll bite… who’s the “victim” of my “vengeance”?

          • FriendlyGoat

            Everyone in your earshot—-in person and online. When you celebrate untruth from what is supposed to be the seat of truth, everyone’s discernment is subject to being reduced. When you celebrate with phrasing such as a massive finger in the eye, no one is blessed or edified by the tone, which is bad enough. When you mislead as to who was really injured in the analogy, that’s worse. The coastal elites in your SV neighborhood and all of the real elites everywhere are going to be enriched and empowered, not throttled.

            Meanwhile, your side of advocacy has contributed greatly to the diminishment of the whole concept of kindness in all countries. Stay tuned—-not to me, to the fruit of your communications as it matures on the vine,

          • Jim__L

            Nothing but careless generalization FG.

            Few Christians who voted for Trump harbor any illusions about the man’s great (let’s use the word “Clintonian”) flaws. The lies, the philandering — 2016 did not allow us a viable candidate who was free from that. Few Christians look to the Federal Government (anymore) for anything like a good moral example. If you can’t get it, and don’t expect it anyway, you have to look to more practical issues to distinguish between the two deeply flawed candidates we did have.

            Clinton would have continued persecution of Christians for preaching God’s Word, and acting on it in their private lives and private businesses. This is evil, and this evil was given a setback by Clinton’s defeat — although Thiel’s presence on Trump’s team is deeply disturbing.

            Clinton also belongs in prison for her misuse of classified information. This is not a matter of vengeance, it is a matter of justice. Vengeance, for something like misuse of classified information, (or “poetic justice”, from a certain ruthless point of view) would look like this: taking one particular guilty-as-hell Clinton crony to the top of Freedom Tower, dousing that Clinton crony in jet fuel, setting that Clinton crony ablaze, and pushing that Clinton crony off the edge. I don’t think America would be a better place if that happened, although it probably would have given Hillary pause before she decided that her convenience trumped proper information handling procedures that are in place for very, very, very good reasons.

            As it is, prison is good enough for both that crony and for Clinton herself.

            I’m glad she’s not in the White House.

          • FriendlyGoat

            You still don’t “get it” that this is not about the person of Hillary Clinton or about the person of Donald Trump. It is about the years-long slog of negative consequences to people worldwide which is soon commence from the alignment of political force evangelicals heavily supported. That you CANNOT think or talk about anything but Hillary and imaginary persecution of preaching is continuing proof of the vengeance complex. That the one thing you CAN now think to worry about is Thiel? Beyond empty headed.

          • Jim__L

            The years-long slog of negative consequences (unemployment, drug addiction, silencing) is what a huge swath of patriotic, hardworking, honest Americans have had to face under the Obama administration.

            Hillary promised more of the same, and that’s that. I’m glad she’s done.

          • JR

            And you are back to shilling. Your never ending greed and avarice strike again. Sorry, you don’t have an infinite claim on my and my labor. I deserve to keep some of my money, as distasteful as you might find the fact.

          • FriendlyGoat

            If you were sorry to be harsh, you’d get a new hobby. You’re addicted to seeing yourself say harsh things in print and it’s your whole point for being here. I wouldn’t know whether that is good or bad for the real people in your life. I mean, we all know that practice in bitching makes one a more thorough bitch—–but the question is whether I keep you distracted from dumping your anger on real people. Hard to say.

          • JR

            You caught me. I’m not sorry to be harsh. People who think higher taxation leads to more robust job growth are idiots. Now our job is to keep these idiots out of power. Nobody said making America great again will be an easy task.

          • FriendlyGoat

            Yep, I caught you. But with probably a couple of hundred messages straight from you to me, how could I miss?

    • JR

      What misinformation? Please be specific. Oh, you mean Wikileaks exposing Hillary’s campaign’s strategy of hiring troublemakers to attend Trump rallies and mar them as violent. Sorry, your monopoly on information has been broken. MSM is just an arm of DNC and it is being treated as such. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Why did you think it was going to be different for you? Because you have the right ideas and hate the right people?

      • FriendlyGoat

        Here are a few misinformation items spoken here by me as they were intended by the GOP for voters to receive them. (And I’m really being straightforward and charitable.)

        Hillary Clinton is a criminal felon who should be locked up.

        ObamaCare can be repealed and replaced with something defined in conservatism which will give cheaper, better health insurance to people, even if they have pre-existing conditions.

        Mexico is going to pay for a wall.

        America can and will deport 11 million undocumented immigrants—– and
        Republicans will not replace them with legalized guest workers who actually take the better jobs at a worse clip than now.

        Gift and Estate Taxes are a tax on dying. That’s why we call it the Death Tax, because everybody experiences death.

        There really was a MUCH better deal to be had with Iran and five other nations.

        There really are MUCH better deals to be had with our trading allies than the TPP and TTIP.

        There is no reason for America to participate with over 100 other countries on reduction of carbon emissions, because those emissions are not harmful. Human-related climate change is a hoax.

        Common Core was cooked up in Washington rather than in 42 states and is therefore evil.

        We have a secret plan to knock out ISIS—–FAST. Don’t worry about any details because we cannot be tipping off our enemies. Since you can’t be told details, don’t worry about costs or the military community.

        There’s more, as you know. But I’m really not stretching these whoppers. They are well known and well repeated in conservative circles.

        • JR

          It’s a start. Modifications will of course happen. Real border enforcement along with 2-3 million criminal illegals is a start.
          Problems you described are large. The damage of Obamacare will take time to undo. Thankfully we can forget about job killing minimum wage hikes and think instead of job producing tax cuts. We are going to make America great again!
          To quote that great American poet Bob Dylan: Get out of the way if you can’t lend a hand.

          • FriendlyGoat

            Yes, there are going to be “modifications” to what you promised. Turns out the misinformation was “specific” and applied curiously to all the “large problems”.

          • JR

            I did not promise anything. In the grip of your rabid paranoia, you are accusing Republicans for daring to compromise. Guess what? President Trump will work with Democrats in Congress and work from center-right to solve our nation’s problems. We have tried your high tax, high regulation way and the results are unsatisfactory. Elections have consequences. We won.
            And since most of Obama’s accomplishments were done by using shady parliamentary strategies and executive fiat, same tactics will be used to dismantle your Leftwing apparatus. You were warned by conservatives for years to not engage in this BS. You ignored us. Let’s see what President Trump’s pen and phone can accomplish.

    • Beauceron

      What do you mean “your whole country”?
      Where are you from?

  • Jim__L

    In 2009, the year that Barack Obama was elected to the presidency of the United States, Clint Eastwood made a movie called Invictus — titled after the favorite poem of both Nelson Mandela and John McCain, Obama’s defeated opponent.

    The movie was about Mandela (played by Morgan Freeman, in an Oscar-nominated performance) and racial healing.

    There is one passage that is especially relevant now…

    “[appearing at the South African Sports Committee, after they had elected to disband the Springbok rugby team]

    Nelson Mandela:
    Brothers, sisters, comrades: I am here because I believe you have made a
    decision with insufficient information and foresight. I am aware of
    your earlier vote. I am aware that it was unanimous. Nonetheless, I
    believe we should restore the Springboks; restore their name, their
    emblem and their colors, immediately. Let me tell you why. On Robben
    Island, in Pollsmoor Prison, all of my jailers were Afrikaners. For 27
    years, I studied them. I learned their language, read their books, their
    poetry. I had to know my enemy before I could prevail against him. And
    we DID prevail, did we not? All of us here… we prevailed. Our enemy is
    no longer the Afrikaner. They are our fellow South Africans, our
    partners in democracy. And they treasure Springbok rugby. If we take
    that away, we lose them. We prove that we are what they feared we would
    be. We have to be better than that. We have to surprise them with
    compassion, with restraint and generosity; I know, all of the things
    they denied us. But this is no time to celebrate petty revenge. This is
    the time to build our nation using every single brick available to us,
    even if that brick comes wrapped in green and gold. You elected me your
    leader. Let me lead you now. ”

    This is EXACTLY the sort of leadership that Obama failed to provide. That failure is why racial divisions are worse now than they were 8 years ago.

    What the UVA letter represents is further failure.

    All Americans are right to be proud of what Thomas Jefferson accomplished as a Founding Father of this country. His courage and ideals should be an inspiration to us all.

    Was he flawed? Sure. I personally think America would have been a better place, for a variety of reasons, had he done the right thing and married Sally Hemmings. But (aside from Christ) what historical figure had no flaws? It is possible for human reason to reject what was bad about a person, while still embracing what is good. No one can imitate another person entirely. Why not make it a point to imitate what was good, and leave behind what was bad? (You’re sure to have your own flaws, why add more?)

    A classical education is supposed to provide this sort of perspective. The UVA letter is destructive of that end, and should be rejected by any person of sound judgement.

    • Jim__L

      Here’s the video…

      https://youtu.be/raXGYABhEnM

      If Trump could figure out how to give a speech like this to Middle America regarding their victory over the totalitarian forces of Political Correctness, he could go down in history as one of the greatest statesmen the US has ever seen.

      Something to think about.

    • Beauceron

      Nice speech.

      Of course, earlier this week the far-left SA opposition leader in a speech said that he plans to have blacks occupy any white-owned lands and just take if from them.

      http://www.skynews.com.au/news/world/africa/2016/11/15/take-white-owned-land–s-africa-s-malema.html

      • Jim__L

        Yeah, it went downhill there too.

        But that simply means there’s still work to be done today. Today is still unshaped, tomorrow even moreso.

    • f1b0nacc1

      By any chance, have you ever seen the ESPN 30-for-30 documentary “The 16th Man”, which was a deep dive into the whole Springbok thing….deeply moving, and enormously well done.

      • Jim__L

        Never did see that one.

        Pity that this got lost in the Sound and Fury of the comment section. Well, gotta keep trying. Eventually there will be an appetite for truth and reconciliation, even here in the US.

        • f1b0nacc1

          I concur.

          To my enormous discredit, I held a deeply negative view of Mandela for a very long time prior to his ascension to leadership. I won’t dispute that he was a deeply flawed man in many ways (he never found a third world tyranny he couldn’t support, for instance), but his grace and nobility as a leader was inspiring to me, and I have never forgotten it. I had the very great pleasure to meet him in the early 00s, and was pleased to see that he is in person the same sort of man that he appears to be in the various portrayals of him.

  • Fat_Man

    I guess they don’t think “All men are created equal.”

    • Fat_Man

      They would probably say what about women?

      • Fat_Man

        To which the correct response is: “Do you have any intelligent questions”

        • Fat_Man

          It is also fair to say that they do not think.

  • Anthony

    “Throughout the 1950s, he read the Wall Street Journal and voted Republican. He was a man before his time: a blue-collar white man who thought a union was a bunch of jokers who took your money and never gave you anything in return. Starting in 1970, many blue-collar whites followed his example. This week (last week), their candidate won the presidency.”

    “For months, the only thing that’s surprised me about Donald Trump is my friends’ astonishment at his success. What’s driving it is the culture gap. One little known element of that gap is that the white working class (wwc) resents professionals but admires the rich.” (Harvard Business Review) https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-don't-get-about-the-u-s-working-class

  • Fat_Man

    I want to begin by reminding people that Teresa Sullivan is not a hero. She is a very bad woman. When the Rolling Stone published the lies about gang rape at a UVa frat, she punished the frat. When the Rolling Story was discovered to be a fiction. She neither remitted the punishments, nor did she apologize.

    This episode, like so many in the past two years show that our higher education system has crashed and burned.

    We should abolish the college’s tax exemptions, tax their endowments, require them to admit students by lottery, abolish tenure, abolish accreditation, abolish federal student loans and grants, fire at least 80% of the administrators and cut the salaries of the survivors dramatically. Burn the buildings down, plow them under, and sow the land with salt.

  • Old Gunny

    “We would like for our administration to understand that although some members of this community may have come to this university because of Thomas Jefferson’s legacy, others of us came here in spite of it,” Any professor who signed a letter with the above statement in it should be required to have a letter of resignation on the UVA presidents desk immediately. If they feel that way, they should seek employment elsewhere.

  • Robert

    Don’t you just love it when the MONSTERS come to devour their creators?

  • Dusty Thompson

    If you’re interested in why these indoctrinated leftwits act this way then watch this video:
    https://youtu.be/vLqHv0xgOlc

  • http://senatormark4.org/Alinsky5.htm senatormark4

    Change ain’t gonna happen. They’ve had decades to sneak this mentality into the colleges and they will obviously, video proof included, get violent if you threaten their safe space. The fact that NOBODY in the college’s administrations can stand up to this is telling. It’s telling us we’re going to have ONLY online learning very soon.

    NOBODY with a checkbook is going to send their kids to school for coloring books when crazy happens. Crazy always happens. Eventually the people with checkbooks are going to open their eyes.

    Chpt 3 “DISS-satisfied”
    http://mcaf.ee/5gcu7j

    FREE book FREE stuff should go fast, eh?

    • Curious Mayhem

      That’s one approach.

  • GeorgeLeS

    “University of Virginia president Teresa Sullivan sent out a campus-wide email”

    Wrong. The University has no campus; it has The Grounds.

  • Curious Mayhem

    “College-educated” really means “college-miseducated” — expensively and willfully brainwashed millennials, little totalitarians in the making. I went to high school and college when we spent plenty of time reading not only what Jefferson wrote, but learned about his ownership of slaves and how he wrestled with that fact. One of my teachers gave us semi-Marxist interpretations of the slave system, but also the significance of slavery in the political structure that the Founders created and how it related to the differences in ways of life between plantation colonies and colonies made up a free farmers and merchants.

    In other words, we learned a thing or two about Jefferson and his world. The black students in our classes found it uncomfortable to discuss the subject, as did many of the white students. But we all, white and black, had to learn something about it to be educated, know what we were talking about, and not sound like an expensively credentialed moron.

    I’m waiting for an assault on Woodrow Wilson at Princeton — a racist and believer in the South’s “lost cause,” but also the creator of the modern “progressive” executive. Obama bears a more than passing resemblance to Wilson, although he lacks almost entirely Wilson’s stature as a thinker and political figure (misguided as he was) and his range of learning.

  • JonathanSwifter

    Mr. Jefferson replies:

    “Sure, take away my quotes. Take my Memorial while your at it. At this stage in life, I mean death, I don’t care.

    But while you’re at it, please return to me the following:

    Your nation’s Independence, which I declared. See how you like living under the English, and Prince Charles, again. And bangers for breakfast, instead of bacon.

    And the two-party system, that Mr. Madison and I set up. A mixed blessing, sure. But see how’d you like living in a one-party state, as under King George, or Kim Jong-Un.

    Also, the 530,000,000 acres from my Louisiana Purchase. Monetary compensation will do. Say, $3 trillion.

    Add in the White House and the Capitol, whose construction I supervised for another one of those old, now-despised Virginians, General Washington.

    Plus all the royalties and fees, with interest, for window blinds, the dumbwaiter and elevator, and the Xerox machines, which inventions or prototypes I invented. About $5 billion will do. Actually, I invented the Patent Office, so I may be due a portion of every invention of every American inventor. $2 trillion maybe.

    Also, some of the royalties from Stephen Ambrose’s bestselling book, Undaunted Courage, about the Lewis and Clark expedition I planned.

    And some fairness about me and slavery. I was far from perfect, heaven knows. But in my Northwest Ordinance, along with establishing a decentralized, county system of democratic government for every new state, I outlawed slavery north of the Mason-Dixon line. And I backed a nation for freed slaves in Liberia, which my protégé Mr. Monroe established. I also wrote a sweeping condemnation of the slave trade in my original Declaration, before it got edited out. But I got my revenge: as President I signed into law a ban on the worst thing about forced servitude–the horrific Passage from Africa of countless slaves, outlawing the import of any more unfortunates into the USA.

    Furthermore, I would like some acknowledgement for my pivotal role in establishing the separation of state and church in this country. As opposed to the way, say, ISIS or Saudi Arabia do it. Monetary value: Priceless.

    And, returned to me the Richmond, Virginia state house that I designed. Estimated value: $500 million.

    Finally, please give me back my University of Virginia, and all its grounds. Maybe $2 billion.

    Throw in free season tickets to every Cavalier game, and I’ll call us even.

    One other thing, as a keen observer of human events for some 300 years.

    I’d suggest adding to the rich fabric of our history instead of deleting from it. For instance, my home state long had highways called Robert E. Lee and Jeff Davis. And it still does. But it added plenty of roads and schools with names like Martin Luther King and Frederick Douglass.

    That’s the way to do it.

    Add to our silken tapestry, instead of pulling out the seams.

    And by the way, you really don’t owe me anything. For anything I accomplished I did in the spirit of public service, and patriotism. So that you could pursue your own happiness and live your lives in liberty.

    From the hilltop of Monticello, warmest regards to my fellow Americans,

    Thomas Jefferson”

    https://www.facebook.com/FounderingFathers/posts/958936917471155

    http://www.amazon.com/Foundering-Fathers-Jefferson-Franklin-Abigail-ebook/dp/B00FEZG8UW/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=8-1&qid=1407805897

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