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Un-coup-th
Turkish Coup Live Blog [CLOSED]
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  • lukelea

    Will I be limited to three visits?

  • Nevis07

    As I’ve commented elsewhere, it seems to me that the repeated coups in Turkey over the decades – a country that is supposed to be THE secular shining example of democracy of an Islamic nation – suggests that Islam is in fact a political as well as a religious movement. Without a reformation of Islam for modern times, it is fundamentally incompatible with Western values.

  • Felix Keverich

    Assad may well outlast Erdogan. Who could have predicted that 5 years ago?

    • JR

      We certainly live in interesting times.

  • Angel Martin

    Since Erdogan likened democracy to a bus where “you get off once you reach your destination”, it seems fitting that if he is ousted it will be by extra-constitutional means.

    Turkey made some very sharp 180 degree policy reversals in recent days: apology to Russia; giving up on ousting Assad; getting friendly again with Israel.

    I wonder if that was Erdogan trying desperately trying to save his position ?

  • WigWag

    “The White House has just released a statement on the reports of an attempted coup, saying that Barack Obama and secretary of state John Kerry “agreed that all parties in Turkey should support the democratically-elected Government of Turkey, show restraint, and avoid any violence or bloodshed”.

    Obama and Kerry demonstrating what morons they are once again.

  • WigWag

    “Strong statements from POTUS and DoS suggest that US thinks the coup will fail:” (WRM)

    They think it will fail or they want it to fail?

  • Pete

    Erdogan, this mutt should go down.

  • WigWag

    “With Kerry now calling for respect for the democratically elected government of Turkey, it’s time for another historical update” (WRM)

    If Obama and Kerry had any brains, they would be doing everything possible to help the perpetrators of the coup. Instead they’re supporting the Islamists. No surprise there. Obama’s default position; always support the Islamists.

  • truthsojourner

    I’m getting very different impressions about the fate of the coup from reading AI’s blog and the networks. Is Mead backing the government?

  • Dhako

    First of all, the coup has so far failed. And secondly, I am afraid, Erdogan will settle account with the faction who dreamed up this farce, particularly the Gulenist, who will now be hunted ruthlessly by Erdogan’s government. And thirdly, I am much more concern with the fall-out of this coup in-terms of the Turkey’s relationship with US, since, the “God-father” of the Gulenist lives in Pennsylvania in the US, with full support by the American’s successive governments.

    Even when the CIA and the rest of the US’s spooks knows very well that this Gulen fellow is in the business of fomenting this sort of insurrection within Turkey with his followers. So, from that perspective I think the Turkey’s relationship with US will get a major hit, since, the US has it’s fingers in-terms of supporting – implicitly and explicitly – the doings of this Gulen fellow from inside the US. So, we shall see what happens in the coming days and the weeks, particularly in-terms of US-Turkish relationship.

    • Lewis

      Turkey has far bigger problems than Gülens extradition. You are a conspiracy theorist nut and sound like an Erdogan lackey. Erdogan is a megalomaniacal dictator who is undoing Ataturks achievements. Soon Turkey will be divided between the Kurds and Greeks. And Kars will be returned to Russia…

  • Dhako

    As for the support Obama and Kerry gave to Erdogan is concern, which is something WRM had already alluded to, one has to bare in mind how things have developed in the first few hours of this coup. And by that I mean initially they were quit about it; and only made a anodyne statement (particularly by Kerry), which was suggesting a call for “peace and continuity” (whatever that may means). And, once it become clear that the coup has failed, then, presto, Obama and Kerry were in force with statement in support of Erdogan’s government. Hence, I have a “theory” as to what is going on in here, and is as follows:

    :…..Firstly, they were hoping that the Turkey Army was in one piece with the coup, and they were against the whole government. And therefore, they were hoping that the situation of Chile in 1970s was going to prevailed in Turkey, whereby the General Pinochet and the rest of the General army staff of the Chilean army were in one against the elected Allende’s government.

    Hence, since the army in Turkey are divided and the majority are supporting the Erdogan government (at least most of the senior officers and every leader of the military branches), then US government (particularly Kerry and Obama, however much they would like for Erdogan to have gone with this Coup) can’t now been seen in supporting the coup of the faction of the army, particularly since the coup has failed, and failed miserably.

    Consequently, the US will do everything that they can not to have their fingers in this failed coup, even if it’s inconceivable that a faction of the Turkish army would be so bold without at least getting a “wink and a nod” from the US’s army and the pentagon in particular, since, the Turkish army (particularly the generals) are very close to their counter-parts in the US.

    Subsequently, I am not surprise the Obama and Kerry were quiet for the bulk of the period the coup was going on. And they didn’t say a word to condemned it. But then as soon as the situation changed in favor of the Erdogan government, and then hey presto, the US government is falling over themselves in condemning the coups and supporting the democratic elected government of Turkey. So, read that what you will, indeed….”

    • Lewis

      Dhako you display typical Turkish/Arab mentality. Immediately you start pointing fingers at the United States/Israel/West for Turkeys own idiotic governance. Turkey is a messed up country and has no one to blame but itself. Better the Greeks or Armenians had divided the Ottoman corpse between themselves. Well at least you can look forward to Kurdish rule given the differential birth rates between Turks and Kurds.

  • FriendlyGoat

    We all prefer elections to military takeovers, but the electoral support for Erdogan is sort of like the electoral support for Putin. It has its drawbacks too. It’s a marvel that Turkey has done as well as it has—-given the religious preference of 99.8% of citizens for a faith that does not necessarily support democracy at all.

  • FluffyFooFoo

    Was this coup even real? If so, stupid. Geezus.

  • FluffyFooFoo

    How could Erdogan be rejected entry by Germany, then said to be headed to London, and then all of a sudden be in Istanbul and at the exact time it looks like the coup has failed?

  • Anthony

    Interesting and revealing running commentary (beyond post).

  • Lewis

    I wonder what this will do for Turkish tourism…

  • Y.K.

    * There’s no actual evidence of the coup being ‘Kemalist’. The government is actually blaming a different religious grouping (Gülenists). The only thing we have is a statement to TV allegedly by the plotters, and well, of course they’d garb themselves in (more acceptable to the world) secular robes.

    * It is an open question whether AKP can sustain the Turkey which has been bequeathed to them. They managed to unnecessarily piss off just about every country in the region, and a few which aren’t even in the region. There’s a reason why the entire world was silent for a few hours after the coup.

    * I am not so sure Erdogan is strengthened from the coup. May in the short run, but even that’s uncertain. The response was in the name of democracy, and it’s difficult to see how he fits the bill. Sure he gets to purge some people, but the thing about purge-happy regimes is that they create a fear amongst the ruling elite itself they’d be next, and that’s very difficult to manage. Even Stalin eventually was killed by his own people***. This will be Erdogan’s fate too, sooner or later.

    *** IMHO, the evidence for poisoning by warfarin is very convincing.

  • Anthony

    1:50 AM splendid WRM rendering and reminiscent of what he does best: historical context to foreign impacting affairs. Bravura!

  • Dhako

    I have said it once before in here at TAI, and I will say again: Erdogan is a man of his people, and he is a man of his Turkey. In other words, his Turkey are the Turks who have no emotional hang-up about being the proud sons of the Ottoman Empire. They are the people of Anatolia, whose very view of being a Turk doesn’t mean you ape whatever political degeneracy the western powers deemed to be the highest political goal of any nation, such the latest fad that allows a man or woman to define their sexual orientation, in the form of allowing people to self-define themselves, as either: Man, or Woman, or even the styling themselves with the new-definition, namely, the said Transgender.

    Moreover, such as loose moral definition of what gender is about means (at least to the Turks of Anatolia) that a person right to decide whether that you are a man on this Tuesday, and come the Next Friday, you fancy yourself to be a Woman. And come another month or so, you could decide to revert back to whatever sex you were born into.

    Hence, this notion of ultimate human right definition may be what the European’s enlightenment have led to (and no doubt the American will b e bringing up the rear pretty soon); and of course, and no doubt it will be what the EU will soon enshrine as one of it’s cornerstone of Human Freedom, which will be presumably what United Nation’s human right forum in Geneva will take up earnestly. But, out there in Anatolia, the plebs there have no truck with this sort of moral degeneracy, defined as a part and parcel of democratic secularism or democratic human right, which is how the West understand things of this sort.

    And if therefore, Democratic Secularism (at least as defined in early 21 century in most western states) has anything to do with this sort of thing, namely the social libertine with its moral degeneracy, then, I am afraid, the Turks of Erdogan’s kind will rather be call barbarian and all sort of name by others; instead of accepting whatever that tickles the emotional fancy of those who go on about democratic secularism and it’s social diktats.

    Furthermore, democracy as the bulk of voters in Anatolia sees it (or their take of it) may be profoundly wrong in the estimations of the western’s thinkers. But, again, in the view of those voters, one needn’t denounce his culture, his moral values, his world-view, and his faith, just to have a say and elect those who will govern him.

    And, therefore, they will have no truck with the notion that says, that the state must be secular (or immoral in their view) in-order to be a democratic state. And most crucially of all, they do not accept, that one has to be religion-denying secularist to have finally grasped the finer points of democratic polity, which is what some western’s thinkers are forever telling the Turks.

    And, lastly, they do not – and never will – consider themselves as if they are a mere pupils in need of democratic educations by the West, Which was the sort of idea one gets when one view how the Kamelist and the rest of the Secularist Turks have viewed themselves during the long years these Secularist have had governed Turkey.

    Taking all these together, one gets the idea that the West will have difficulty in dealing with Erdogan and whoever comes after him, which probably be a version of Proud Turk, much given a reference for the Ottoman, as well as little regard for any self-serving western conceit. And, icing on the cake will be, they will be a convinced Islamist of the Democratic hue, in the sense of trying to marry the moral strictures of Islam (at least as practice in Turkey) with a democratic restrains or “norms” that allows the polity to be accountable to it’s citizens.

    Now, of course, such an attempt at synthesis may not work (as many western’s thinkers will readily shout it out from the nearest roof-top they can find). But to Erdogan and his AKP as well as their voters in Anatolia, theirs is their Turkey, and they will try to “synthesize” the interpretations of Islamic stricture with the requirement of democratic polity. And most crucially of all, they are not the sort of people ready to sit at the back of any western class and be taught the finer points of governance of their nation by some self-preening western’s thinker, however much that thinker thinks he knows what Turkey needs.

    This is the reality of modern Turkey, and the failed coup simply revealed the true nature of it. And how the “assumptions” the West have about itself (as the intellectual tutors to others) as well as what others should be grateful for, is bordering on delusion. Also it tells us that secularism in modern Turkey has also died with that last night coup. And what will follow will be a political settlement that will marry a democratic polity with the innate and the inner Islamic faith of the bulk of the Anatolian’s voters.

    And, of course, this may be good or bad thing, going forward. But it sure will be a political design – or if you like – a destiny, solely measured from the ground up by those who will live under it. Not some soiled copy, exported from the dusty tomes that defines the French Secularism, which was what Ataturk and his Kemalist political ideology tried to do to Turkey in 1920s, when they have imported this idea of “democratic Secularism” from France in late 1920s. And this idea, was of course, the notion of “grafting” (as a imported skin) this secularism to a wholly inhospitable (or at least un-receptive) social terrain under-neath it. We shall see the result of it, in due course, of course.

    But whatever the case may be it seems that Turkey of Erdogan’s political persuasion have made a “clean break” with the old Turkish’s curse of self-doubt about itself and it’s place in the world. In particularly with that old sense of always waiting others to show how to make a fist of it when it comes to governing itself in a more confident manner without at all being in awe with the western’s ways of secularism, but confidently striking boldly into the future with their own design.

  • Jacksonian_Libertarian

    This Coup attempt was so weak, that many now think it was fake, think Reichstag fire. I expect Erdogan to use the fake coup (Psuedocoup) in the same way that Hitler used the Reichstag fire to establish the Nazi regime.

    • Dhako

      Looks that many western’s commentators can’t stomach the fact that, Erdogan is here to stay, regardless of how much these folks would love to see the back of him. Perhaps, the old play-book of the CIA, in-terms of getting rid off all the pesky johnny foreigners who are not fond of obeying the political diktats of Uncle Sam, needs a bit of updating in here.

      Particularly in-terms of telling the armies of these countries, that, if they want to get rid off their leaders, in which incidentally, the Washington’s power-brokers also disapprove of, then it’s best to openly invite US’s experts from the pentagon to arrange any intended coup.

      Of course, like Iran in 1953, which was when the CIA and in cahoot with the British’s MI6, gotten rid off the duly elected leader of Iran, Mr Mossadegh, could also back-fire on the West, which account for the estrangement between Iran and the West.

      Hence, if you really want to ensure to have a boot-lickers running the show in any Muslim nation at the behest of Western interests, like Mubarak of Egypt, then, perhaps, its best to openly advocates a western imperialism instead of hoping that some sort of action with a plausible deniability can be mounted by indigenous hired hands on your behalf.

      • FluffyFooFoo

        You’re just an apologist for an anti-democratic, authoritarian Erdogan.

  • Jerome Ogden

    The attempted coup failed to overthrow Erdogan, but it was a great success from the perspective of Germany and other EU nations opposed to letting Turkey become a full EU member, and to granting visa-free travel in Europe to Turks.

    Turkey was very close to meeting all the EU’s requirements, but coming just after Brexit, the coup’s optics could not be worse for Erdogan. To Europeans it will look like the EU is trying to replace a large, stable, culturally-compatible democracy with a larger, unstable, culturally alien state that is veering rapidly toward Islamic authoritarianism.

    That should delay Turkey’s membership for several years, if not permanently.

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