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The Great Blue Migration
Why Are So Many People Leaving New York?
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  • Jim__L

    Other people are still coming in from around the world because here is a better deal than where they came from, but locals are moving around seeking the life they thought they would have.

    That’s the story of the turn of the millennium.

  • Andrew Allison

    Democracy is self-destructive. Social Democracy, aka Blue Cancer, just self-destructs faster. California is doing everything it can to overtake New York in the race to the bottom.

    • Jim__L

      The people I know who support it are doing it with the best of intentions (and see only the good that they’re doing, never the hard) with the belief that their point of view is the apex of human thought, contrasted to the benighted past where everything was “patriarchy” and “racism” and “primitive”.

      For the most part they see children not as the future, but as atavistic. “Transhumanity” is the future of… well, not the species, but of … something.

      The ideas will fall of their own dead weight, but it’s unclear how much they’ll take down with them as they fall.

      • Andrew Allison

        Whether it’s for the best of intentions or to feel good and/or get re-elected is debatable, but I fear that they will take us all down with them.

    • Pait

      Good to know that your essential objection is against democracy itself.

      • Tom

        In this, he joins the men who created this nation. Democracy is mob rule.

        • Pait

          Good to know that’s what you think.

          • Tom

            And I am glad to know that you believe that 50%+1 of the population is always right.

          • Jim__L

            No, 50%+1 of the top 10% of the people in this country is “always right”… the median voter in this country has no power whatsoever.

          • Pait

            Did I say that?

          • Tom

            Given what you said to Andrew, yeah, pretty much.

          • Pait

            Then I’m not part of the argument anymore. It’s you and a person into whose mouth you put words. Goodbye, have a nice life, both sides of your personality.

          • Tom

            Sorry, mac. Your attempts at coyness are obvious.

      • Suzyqpie

        The US is a constutional republic, Not a democracy.

        • Pait

          It’s the same in Greek 😉

          • Jim__L

            “Democracy” is Greek, “Republic” is Latin, if you really want to go there.

          • Pait

            Right, the Greek word that gives us “democracy” means the same as the Latin word that gives us “republic.” Classically, and to this day – the official name of the Hellenic Republic is Ελληνική Δημοκρατία, Greek Democracy.

      • Andrew Allison

        Wrong. Like Churchill, I believe that democracy is the best among many worse forms of government. This doesn’t change the fact that, as history shows us, it carries within it the seeds of its own destruction. As Tytler wrote, “”A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.”

    • Suzyqpie

      fairus dot org published a study on illegal aliens in CA. Data is from 2013. Estimates are that there are 3M illegal aliens in CA. They cost CA taxpayers $25.3B in education, health care, legal system expenses, et al. They return to the CA Treasury $3.5B in various taxes. That is negative $21.8B to the CA Treasury. That is fiscal insanity.
      We are told by politicians that illegals bring economic benefits???

  • Pait

    I live in Brookline, Massachusetts, the bluest town in the bluest state. The main problem the town has is too many kids in the schools. People just keep moving in.

    Your argument about outflow doesn’t seem to resonate with the facts.

    • Beauceron

      It’s not an argument. He’s quoting statistics from two separate sources on the net outflow of people from NYC.

      • Pait

        Torture a number, it will confess anything 😉

        I read a number of speculative statements further down in the piece, some presented as fact. It does read like an argument to me.

        • Dale Fayda

          Wait, are you saying that the statistics quoted directly from the Empire Center abut the net migration outflow from NY State are inaccurate and probably made deliberately so, in order to discredit the “Blue Model” there? Is that what you mean by “Torture a number, it will confess anything ;-)”?

          Can you offer a differing interpretation of these statistics? If so, please have at it.

        • Beauceron

          “I read a number of speculative statements further down in the piece,
          some presented as fact. It does read like an argument to me.”

          Address those arguments then. You posted about the actual numbers reported (and offering only some circumstantial, personal local observations to refute them), not about what those numbers mean, conflating the factual portion with the editorial portion.

          You can dispute what the author thinks those numbers mean or why they are, but not the numbers. People are leaving NYC.

    • qet

      Brookline is a special case, like Brooklyn whose population also has grown even as state-wide population has dropped. And you are right about Brookline’s blueness. Findings from a recent (2012) report of the Brookline Community Foundation: “High and rapidly rising median income and housing costs along with widening wealth inequality among residents. A poverty rate increase from 9.3% to 13.1%.” http://brooklinecommunity.org/sites/brooklinecommunity.org/files/Phase_One%20Understanding%20Brookline%20Report.pdf

      Also, the trend likely will not continue: http://www.brooklinema.gov/DocumentCenter/View/4312

      • Pait

        I’m not sure I understand you point.

        • qet

          Only that the current fact of inflow into blue Brookline does not disprove, as I understood you to be saying it did, the current fact of outflow from blue Massachusetts.

        • f1b0nacc1

          That is patently obvious

          • Pait

            The only obvious thing that one learns from this discussion is that one doesn’t learn anything from this discussion.

          • rheddles

            What I learned from the discussion is that there is at least one pedant in Brookline.

          • Pait

            Yes, all my neighbors think that ad hominem abuse is the highest form of dialogue. Happy 2016 y’all!

          • Dale Fayda

            Why haven’t you answered my questions in the post above where I cite numerous statistics about NY State losing population for well over a decade and about its upstate economy stagnating? See the links I posted earlier. Are they all incorrect? A “vast right wing conspiracy”, perhaps?

            If you think this article is inaccurate, how do you square it with the statistical reality that NY State is LOSING population? I’ll ask again – why, in your opinion, is NY State steadily losing population, despite a very large ingress of foreign immigrants?

          • Pait

            I do not have deep knowledge about what is happening in each city your statistics mention, and I am not able to solve all open questions. The only point I was making is that one town loses population, another gains. A more careful study would be needed to draw conclusions.

            On a more general tone: There is a lot to read out there. I read what I find useful; if someone wants me (or anyone else) to read what they write, they can chose to present their argument in a manner that makes reading it a productive and enlightening activity. The comments to the original post, which itself was weak but not bad, are none of the above. People seem to be setting traps to be able to say gotcha later down. There isn’t much to be learned from this style of argument.

  • Beauceron

    It’s funny to see this today. I just had a conversation with my parents over the holiday about moving out of the city. Still a few years away from doing it, but definitely will be within 5, I think.

  • Suzyqpie

    Why Are So Many People Leaving New York?….Capital is mobile, it goes where it is wanted and stays where it is treated well. People are capital….

  • jskdn

    “Napa Valley’s restaurants still need busboys and New York’s dairy producers still need seasonal farmhands—low-paying jobs in states with high costs of living.”

    Those jobs pay aren’t being subjected to the market forces of only legal workers from this country. Instead of legal and likely younger natives taking such jobs early in their working lives, and being paid according to an expectation of being able to lead decent economic lives, the elites bring in people from other countries who have much lesser expectations. Those immigrants also live in housing, driving up its cost, which is the greatest factor in the cost of living for working people who didn’t buy housing at a earlier time of greater afford-ability.

  • Pete

    I bet a lot of those leaving New York state are retired public sector employees. They sucked the system dry and now they won’t stick around to pay even part of the tab. Just send their government pension checks to income tax free Fla.

  • rheddles

    Why do fools fall in love?

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