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After Charlie Hebdo
Can Europe Find a Way to Discuss Integration?
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  • LarryD

    Being an American is not a bloodline issue, with most of us. As Spengler (aka David Goldman; cf and notes, becoming an American is more like converting religions, rather than being born into a nation. Thus it’s open to anyone, of any prior nationality. This is not how Europeans, or our own elites, think. For that matter, most of the world still thinks in a tribal fashion, identity is the tribe you are born into, your parents were born into, which is why the French really aren’t interested in assimilating their immigrants and their descendants, and despite what their passports might say, the Islamic second generation considers themselves part of the Islamic ummah, not part of the French nation.

    Back in the 1980s, US law was changed to stop encouraging assimilation, I believe we will rue this greatly.

  • Pete

    Why do the kiddies here assume Europe has the duty to take in and assimilate millions of Third Worlders from an alien culture?

    And by assimilation, it is meant that the dominant culture has to lower itself to the level of the immigrant least the sensitivities of the immigrants get bruised

    This is cultural suicide. .

    • Martin Adamson

      Like many Europeans, I am getting a little tired of these lectures. The majority of people who arrive in northern Europe from third world countries are guaranteed as a minimum free housing, clothing, food, transport, entertainment and healthcare – in other words, all the necessities for human existence – for life. Their children get free taught education at least to the age of eighteen, very often beyond and full access to all the educational resources necessary to begin almost any career. In short, they get for nothing a lifestyle which only upper-middle class people in their native countries can enjoy. A lifestyle which, for most of us Europeans, our grandparents never enjoyed at any stage in their lives. Quite seriously, what more can we reasonably be expected to do?

      • Jeffn

        That’s the big problem glossed over in this article. Open borders and a generous welfare state are incompatible – at least if you have any interest in financial solvency. You have to pick one and it’s not surprising that French and German citizens choose the generous welfare state. This is less of a problem in the US, where the cost of the welfare state is lower based on the supposition that people come here to go to work. But it’s still a problem and it’s still a choice that nobody wants to acknowledge.
        Layer on top of that the fact that a highly tolerant society is incompatible with an intolerant religious population and the problem is compounded in Europe. if immigrants have any voice in local laws, Amsterdam at 20-30% muslim will be a completely different place than it is now (or at least was in the ’80s and ’90s). It’s not crazy for the Dutch to oppose that change.

      • Pete

        What more can you do? Well, the muslims seem to want you to hand over the keys of your country to them. And while you’re at it, you better convert to islam.

        Brother, you guy are in the process of being disposed in your our native land.

      • Corlyss

        VM’s BS production tends to blow thru the charts when immigration comes up. The misconceptions about the American experience, the lack of discernment among the cultural elites on both sides of the Atlantic, and the pitiful lack of cultural self-confidence after 40 years of purposeful denigration by the Left, leave us with few robust strategies for addressing unrestricted immigration, a concept that was anathema before WW2 and that has been forced on unwilling populations without even a pro forma nod to the latter’s concerns.

  • stanbrown

    “they certainly bear responsibility for the company they keep” — does this also apply to the anti-war protesters and Democrats who shared the stage with communist groups in the US a decade ago? And the protesters today who, along with Al Sharpton, are marching at events orchestrated and funded by ANSWER and other communist groups?

  • Martin Adamson

    “That’s unfortunate, not least because Europe really does have immigration and assimilation problems—as the immigrants, who often face discrimination, experience alienation, and are shut out from many of the guarantees of European life,”

    Tell me, do you think the high levels of violence in schools in immigrant areas in Europe is being caused by the native-born staff, or of the immigrant pupils? A quick Google search should suffice.

  • Martin Adamson

    Another question. Why do you think that countries with such maximally diverse histories, cultures and philosophies of immigration as Norway, Sweden, France, Britain, Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Italy and Switzerland all seem to produce alienation amongst Muslim immigrants. Why is it that, for example, Hindus and Sikhs from the Punjab have managed very successfully to integrate in Britain, whereas Muslims have not? Why have Algerian and Moroccan Jews integrated with enormous success in France, whereas Algerian and Moroccan Muslims have not? Is there any factors in Muslim, rather than European, culture that might inhibit integration? Have immigrant community leaders tried to diminish obstacles to immigration or to artificially create more?

  • gearbox123

    As someone else pointed out (can’t find the citation right now), why do other groups assimilate with relative ease everywhere, but Muslims have trouble (and cause problems) in Sweden, Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, Germany, France, Belgium, Spain, Russia, the Phillipines, and everywhere else all over the world? Either all these countries simultaneously decided to hate Muslims, or there is something about Islam that prevents peaceful integration.

    Which one of those options is more likely?

  • gearbox123

    One thing that amazes me is the absolute screeching rage that groups like PEGIDA engender in European elites. They’re not treated like people with differing points of view, which should be debated, or even like citizens with a gripe that needs to be addressed. They’re treated like children who are being naughty and deserve to be scolded. I realize that Europe doesn’t have the same tradition of open democracy that the USA has, but even so, that’s very telling. European elites will brook no disagreement on this question – their attitude boils down to “immigration is good, because shut up.”

    • SDN

      No different than the Republicrats and the Tea Party. Those who prefer to ignore reality hate to be reminded that their ignorance doesn’t stop it from being there.

  • FriendlyGoat

    Islam is a world view, not a race or a type of people. The goal for non-Islamic Europeans and people everywhere else is overcoming the unfortunate rumor that Mohammad is THE prophet of God with sayings which are to supersede everything else in human thought, and then replacing that notion with something better. I’m not saying this is easy. But Europe already has more Muslims than it can kill, persecute or run out—– and more are coming all the time. So the answer has to be something OTHER THAN merely disdaining the people who have pledged allegiance to Mohammad. The answer has to be salvaging minds from the falsehood. And, yes, I already mentioned that we all know this is not easy to do.

  • Mia Seths

    Europe has immigrants from all over the world yet the only ones they can’t integrate are the Muslims. And the Muslims are the only ones who pose a security threat. The same is true in the US, the UK, Canada, and Australia. The problem is not Europe, the problem is Islam. We need to end Muslim immigration before Europe’s problems become our problems.

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