The Sick Man Is Europe
The Great Eurosion

Everyone can agree that the European body politic is sick, but about the diagnosis, let alone the cure, there is no consensus.

Appeared in: Volume 13, Number 3 | Published on: November 20, 2017
John Bew is research fellow at the think tank Policy Exchange and a professor of history at the War Studies Department in King’s College London. He is the author of Attlee: The Man Who Made Modern Britain (Oxford University Press, 2016), which won the Orwell Prize.
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  • 李明洙

    What is the soul and purpose of Europe or the west? I dare any European or westerner in general to give me an answer. Not only will you almost certainly disagree among yourselves, but I am confident that I can tear down your mirages and misconceptions about yourself. Seems that the problem for you all is that you are, now, starting to realize what you believe about yourself is not really true.

    • Trajan Fanzine

      When Asia has acquired its first soul and purpose, I’ll answer your troll……ponder that while you listen to Mozart…….

      • 李明洙

        In other words, you have no answer, and you’re rightfully afraid of being demolished if you go ahead and try to wing it. Mozart? Congratulations. He made some music. Maybe you like the 18th century? So you like the era of colonization and murderous French and British empires?

        • Trajan Fanzine

          In other words; a) you cant answer your own question(s), LOL……b)are totally lost to nuance or subtlety, put that down to a lack of skill in geometric thinking, (a bane of your society), c) are arrogant to the point of pugnacity…

          • 李明洙

            You can’t answer it because there is no answer. I’ll give you props for not veering off into some diatribe about individual rights and democracy promotion. Even you, it seems, know that’s absurd and can be easily dismantled. However, I can and do judge you for not being brave enough to admit it.

            By contrast, I can easily and without hesitation tell you what my society’s soul and purpose is, if you should like to hear it.

          • Trajan Fanzine

            No thx, I have had my fill of misdirection and bombast for the day.

          • 李明洙

            Oh really? Because you replied to me and I was issuing a challenge. You couldn’t meet it. Now you want to run. Okay. Bye bye. NEXT!

          • D4x

            Post-Mao, it seems like “the soul and purpose of the Chinese government” is payback for:
            1) Russia’s 17th century colonization of what is now Siberia north of the Argun River; 2) the British East India Company’s theft of tea horticulture and manufacturing from China in 1848 in between 3) the two British Opium Wars against China (1839–1842) and (1856–1860), forcing the opening of the Middle Kingdom to trade;
            4) the Boxer Rebellion (1899 and 1901); 5) Japan’s invasion of Manchuria on 18 September 1931, beyond brutal occupation; leading to 6) Civil War 1945-1949, with the losing nationalist Kuomintang getting Taiwan with so much loot; and 7) Mao Tse-Tung’s Cultural Revolution.
            All good reasons for a restoration of respect for China’s history, peoples (Manchurians and Monghols Matter), and astonishing contributions to the rest of world, from silk, tea, paper, gunpowder.
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9547c4590cbba23a09d9d793643ba8628b04f31b23df4597039ee94c79408dd8.png China still does not have a Mozart. Respect is reciprocal.

            https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-great-british-tea-heist-9866709/ 03 09 2010 “The Great British Tea Heist excerpt from For All the Tea in China: How England Stole the World’s Favorite Drink and Changed History” by Sarah Rose is a terrific book.

          • 李明洙

            Fairly well done. Pursuing each one of those things is in the interest of the Han people. But you should know two things. 1. Pre-1911 was the Qing Dynasty. The Manchus. They were invaders and not Han ruling China. 2. that the Communist Party is not 72 years old, it dates nearly 25 more years. In fact, our Civil War was taking place before the Japanese invasion. Our attempt at a republic failed miserably as the incompetence of such forms of government shown through brightly. The Chinese republic agreed to Japan’s 21 demands, for example, well before 1931. Same sort of way European democracies worked with Hitler. Bad ideas driven by incompetence and separating business interests from the national interest.

          • D4x

            Madame Peng Liyuan sets an example in style, but she is too Han-nish in stipulating the Cantonese ‘Cheongsam’ descriptor instead of the Manchurian ‘Qi Pao’.

            I chose to NOT offend your intelligence with too much historical detail about your ‘Han Song China’ unfortunate conquest by the Mongols 1279–1368, or your ‘Han Ming China’ unfortunate six hundred year occupation by the Manchurians, officially 1644-1912 CE. The Songs, and the Mings were great dynasties.

            This post is about Europe. Today, I first read the ‘Spengler’, David Goldman, that John Bew references
            here is paragraph 2. Since David wrote about Merkel’s failure to form a coalition, and the consequences of a new
            election, I then read an essay David wrote in 2016, about American identity, which, as usual, was too pompous, so I had some fun contrasting the cultural impact of the American produced film 2016 ‘Pride and Prejudice and Zombies’ (The Proposal scene) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmfckyy-YvM with the 2012 Bollywood’s ‘Bride and Prejudice – Trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFYwqts1_TI Directed by [Sikh born in Kenya] Gurinder Chadha, “a film which marries Jane Austen with Indian and Western musicals – attempted to fuse Bollywood, Hollywood, and a “British sensibility” into one film.” Then, I came to TAI to read this comment thread, to see if anyone was thinking about anything of substance.

            Sparing your touchy Han sensibilities: Jane Austen’s “Pride and Prejudice” is considered by many to be the first https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/99cd23a5648c7ad3cd4e1ee80280e4844ea7e2d056a88c7aaf62efb929b358f8.jpg English-language novel. You should read it:

            I just finished reading William Dalrymple’s “In Xanadu”, where he retraced Marco Polo’s journey from Jerusalem to [Mongol turned Yuan] Kublai Khan’s Shangdu in the mid-1980’s. That got me reading “The Baburnama”, the first autobiography, written in Turkic Chagatai by the first Moghul, Babur (1483–1530), a direct descendant of
            Genghis Khan. The Moghul Dynasty became a fusion of Mongol-Persian-Sunni Islam, transformed by the Rajput Hindus.

            India is the future because they have, in no particular order, an ancient civilization never disrupted; the birthplace of three major surviving religions; always open to trade, and a history of waves of conquest and colonization that may only be matched by Mesopotamia. All that and more is why “the United States of America and the Republic of India are proud to announce the eighth annual Global Entrepreneurship Summit (GES) in Hyderabad, India on 28-30 November, 2017.” https://www.ges2017.org/about-ges/ https://www.ges2017.org/agenda/

            Fresh DNA, fresh ideas. That is why Manchurians and Mongols Matter to Han China. Hanicization of China’s land empire is the worst kind of inbreeding.

            It’s ok – TAI does not understand why any of this matters. They believe history ended in 1992, and, worse,
            that history started in 1945.

            Go eat some fish, fed with dewatered night soil, from a Chinese fish farm.

            W. H. Auden (1937) on Austen:
            You could not shock her more than she shocks me,
            Beside her Joyce seems innocent as grass.
            It makes me most uncomfortable to see
            An English spinster of the middle class
            Describe the amorous effects of ‘brass’,
            Reveal so frankly and with such sobriety
            The economic basis of society.


            1940 Pride and Prejudice Official Trailer #1 – Laurence Olivier & Greer Garson MGM Very American


            1940/1980 Pride & Prejudice Comparison – The Proposal
            1980 BBC four episode adaptation best left for scholarly debate.

            1959 “First Impression” Broadway musical, book by Abe Burrows (Abram Solman Borowitz), best known for “Guys and Dolls”, “Silk Stockings”, and “Can-Can” Definitely American

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5MmcT_vcBU
            1995 Pride and Prejudice Trailer Six episode BBC/A&E Colin Firth as Best Darcy Ever
            The BBC’s productions in 1952,1958, 1967, and 1980 never got traction.


            2005 Pride & Prejudice Official Trailer #1 – Keira Knightley as Lizzie; Focus Features Very British, almost as much fun as Bollywood, and closest to “Reveal so frankly and with such sobriety, The economic basis of society.”

          • 李明洙

            Hahaha they might actually believe that. Do you feel that they WANT history to be over in 1992? Like, it’s dead and make sure it stays dead? This is about Europe, and so too was my question. I ended up having to answer that since nobody was coming at me with a reasonable purpose for the West anymore. With democracy and human rights, on the one hand, out of the picture and with defense of white ethnic identities in Europe called hateful and horrible then there’s really nothing left.

            Yes we all know about China’s thousands of years of being invaded or internal conflicts. But that was accomplishing something important. It was molding an ethni national identity. It took thousands of years to consolidate mostly under the Han.

            I have to laugh a little about your comments on India. The Muslims and the Hindus want to kill each other, and they have many times in recent history. Im talking inside India. Of course Pakistan is also there to keep India off balance. There are some more significant ethnic problems as well. Perhaps the only place on this planet with problems of corruption and graft worse than China’s rural provinces is New Delhi itself. The place has been a black hole of foreign aid and investment alike.

          • D4x

            Pride with Prejudice is China’s Achilles heel. China’s Water Wars, with the occupation of the Tibetan Plateau, against 2.5 billion Asians from Pakistan to Vietnam, is truly deplorable: China’s Waterloo.

            Grand Narratives, with Heroes, do matter.
            Top 5 Greatest Rulers Of India https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaiAOLj0oKk
            When Ashoka ruled the great Mauryan Empire 250 BCE, and spread Buddhism far beyond India’s borders, especially to China:
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/81817ccc2f90eb784d69e14670c56e7dd51706723967333320b8e273a0065597.png this was Qi China 260 BCE: https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4c6f78e2c98a8a833ee4b0e974b209df912f6c21e4e96939363a9fe99d04d434.jpg

            India has more than 2000 ethnic groups, members of all the world’s religions: https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/525b494351a43321889544aabb207269d2c3974a1c60c6abb138e9180f5b1152.jpg

            In order to ensure that the 56 Chinese ethnic groups live together in harmony, the Chinese government introduced a series of policies […] https://cn.hujiang.com/new/p404497/
            China’s ‘public diplomacy’ in every embassy: Where’s the Han? 2013/08/04 Fifty-Six Ethnic Groups in China https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/850943d3dbb6a3a8409ea6dc0eb3f2aa393f5286c3569ac6539e98fdf37c853c.jpg

            National Heroes of China: According to Greek mythology and folklore, a hero (male or female) usually fulfills the definitions of what is considered good and noble in the originating culture. Normally the willingness to sacrifice the self for the greater good is seen as the most important defining characteristic of a hero.
            China, in its age old history has created some of the finest national heroes of the time and the country is still the cradle of numerous brave hearts who can be rightly called national heroes . All of them embody the
            nation’s identity as a whole.
            Some of the renowned names of national heroes are: […this list really needs some work]
            http://www.123independenceday.com/china/national-heroes.html

            China faces demographic implosion, with a huge surplus of marriage-age men with no chance of a Han-bride:
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c9cdbbb54ca75d6ef2ad7a4b7487a549aee6b9614fa82a43c45e2e733dd99977.png

            India has the healthiest demographic future: https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/753dba110352edfcd8732c61df71be3b603bdd5a2f7ea44c2527c73f4bfe4a3b.png

            End of history lesson.

          • 李明洙

            Oh Crimea river about Tibet. Nobody can or will do a thing about it. We’ve been waiting more than 60 years. The Russians proved that again in Crimea more recently. Interestingly, Han Chinese in Tibet turned the place from pig slop into something more modern with actual utilities and an economy.

            But you’re just really excited about India because it has a young population? That doesn’t solve the corruption issues or the infrastructure issues or the enormous sub-cultural and religious problems. You sound like Gordon Chang predicting some Chinese collapse and Indian takeover lol. Really we can admit that the one child policy has caused problems and was a mistake, but can the west admit that mass third world migration and generous welfare for them is a mistake? Our issue seems much less worrisome.

          • D4x

            The occupation of the Tibetan Plateau by China is a Water War against 2.5 billion Asians from Pakistan to Vietnam. I read Brahma Chellaney, and other sources, on China’s Water Wars. So does this U.S. government.
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d308fe5d2c91f887ea58896fda2f19fa40d130dde1696169ea0550c69b974345.jpg

            You are illiterate, not worth another second.

          • 李明洙

            Oh boohoo. Harassment? You replied to me fool. I’m reporting you for retardation. As soon as my profile gets banned or blocked I’ll just create 5 more and each with a new IP and email. Takes mere minutes. Good luck trying to stop my speech tough guy.

          • 明洙李

            Look, it’s me! I told you I’d come back. Good luck to Damir or whoever the hell deleted me. Maybe I’ll bring 100 buddies along to crash the party someday soon. Until then I’ll drop by as I please and I’ll be telling everyone that TAI censors comments with no spam, no profanity, and no direct threats.

          • KremlinKryptonite

            너 연변에서 온 조선족이냐? We can talk in English, intermediate korean, or my terrible Mandarin. I actually do live in the region, but I’m not sure you do. What do you prefer?

          • 李明洙

            Oh that’s not very nice. But yes I’m ethnic korean from china. Good guess. What do you want to talk about??

          • KremlinKryptonite

            Sorry for the slang and the slur. Needed to vet you. Not much of a guess. If your name really is Ri yet you’re really from
            China (and you do speak korean) then it’s pretty straightforward. I would like to talk about you. How’s a poor, ethnic korean from Yeonbyeon end up traveling to places like Princeton? Sounds like a good story. I bet your dad has a good job!

          • 李明洙

            Yeah he does! He works for Chem China. But he’s been in the Middle East for years now. You know we pump about half the oil out of Iraq and think Americans were protesting the war saying it was for oil. For whom? Chinese have a lot of it lol.

          • KremlinKryptonite

            Oh very good! Thanks for confirming that your dad, a North Korean (who must be of some stature and allowed to live and marry in China), works for Chem China. That’s an interesting story and a very credible lead. I’ll hand that off to someone who wants to pursue it. I thank you. Enjoy the pampered life. Oh, and do wisen up, kiddo.

    • Psalms13626

      What is the soul and purpose of China? The question itself is idiotic. You just want to do the usual Chinese troll routine. Which is fine as far as it goes, but I’m not sure if this is the website that gives you the most bang for the buck. Try Hill or Atlantic.
      BTW, to answer your question the purpose of the West is to outsource heavy polluting manufacturing to China so it is Chinese citizens dying of cancer as opposed to Western ones. Since Chinese leaders don’t really care about their citizen’s well being, it has been working out pretty well for all involved. You’re welcome.

      • Unelected Leader

        Unfortunately, it’s not only those jobs that are outsourced. Between 2001 and 2011, first 10 years of China in the WTO, the US lost 3.2 million jobs, and a net loss of 2.7 million. Unmitigated disaster. It only created a small 500,000 or so due to increased exports. Right around 1 million of those 3.2 million lost jobs were electronics manufacturing. Think the Lenovo buyout of IBM manufacturing in ‘05. Jobs that paid about $1000 or more a week. In other words, pretty good jobs. They didn’t disappear entirely. They weren’t taken over by robots. They were simply sent overseas to benefit the 1% of the 1% here, and the Chinese more broadly, at the expense of millions of Americans.

        • Psalms13626

          What’s the solution? Ban Chinese companies from doing business in the US? Modern consumer demands low prices. There is a reason why we had low inflation for the past decade and a half. This consumer behavior inevitably leads to things being produced at low cost locales. The way I see it, the problem is not that costs are socialized, while benefits are localized. It’s the other way around. The benefits are socializes. We, as consumers, benefit from competition as we get better products at lower prices. Unfortunately, the costs are localized. The jobs you mentioned are those costs. How to compensate the losers of globalization is the question of our time.

      • 李明洙

        I’m glad you asked! About the jobs, you outta listen to UL. He knows more than you.

        The soul and purpose of the Chinese government is to unapologetically, and brazenly, promote and advance the interests of the Chinese state and the Han people. Of course, the Han are a unique and distinct ethnic group with their own history, custom, tradition, beliefs, and identity.
        Juxtapose this to America or any major actor in Europe today. Certainly there are distinct ethnic groups in Europe with customs and traditions and identities probably worthy of defending. But you cannot even have that conversation in any official capacity. Indeed, you are supposed to bend, perhaps bend over, and surrender your identity and your traditions.

        The west doesnt even advance their own national interests very well. The west has been in a state of comparative decline to the east for decades. You and I both know that if the west was really interested in promoting democracy or individual freedoms then it would make market access and other goodies contingent upon the rest of us changing our ways. The west is really pathetic. It’s easy to look down on.

        • Psalms13626

          China always has this weird superiority complex. Here’s what I know. Rich Chinese are sending their kids to live in the West. The people who know China best don’t think it is a suitable place for their children. Once Western elites start sending their children to China, I will get worried. But don’t get too down on yourself. You are the future, and always will be.

          • 李明洙

            Well why do you think they do that? Have you ever been to Princeton? I have. You know, around the Princeton area there are many, many Chinese households, whether they be adult children on their own or even a wife and minor children. However, the father may still be in China and sending money. They buy houses and other forms of real estate. Sometimes it’s legit. Often times it’s their way of hiding money from the proper authorities in China. They are famous. One of the many reasons America does not want an extradition treaty with China, for example, because the US government loves the money from corrupt officials that finds its way there.

          • Psalms13626

            I live in NJ so I know exactly what you are talking about. All English speaking countries have “Investor Visas” which have de facto turned into a vehicle for rich Chinese to shield their assets and to send their families as far as possible from China. The person actually stealing the money must be in China, but all the stolen money goes to the US. I think it is a wonderful arrangement. WE get money and good high achieving, high income households.
            Anyway beolza, it is getting late. You got to give respect to get respect. Think about that.

          • 李明洙

            Excellent! So you know why they get as many family members out as possible, right? The party will hold family in china as collateral until the offender either comes back, or they are used to infiltrate US universities and companies. Although the latter not needed so much because US rich can’t get enough of china and hand over their tech just for a little market access.

            I read your comment above. Are you really blaming the consumer? The people with basically no power and little to no money. Haha! It’s your rich and your government that the rich own. They love China. The party allows them a taste and then forces them to license tech or hand it over outright just to be in china. They agree to do it. They can’t help themselves. We can spit in their face and they still come begging for a little more access to china. Pathetic.

            You know we are economic nationalists, as you would say “mercantilist” or “protectionist”, but we take that with pride because America and all of the west practices or practiced protectionism and economic nationalism in their smarter past. Germany and Japan are still practicing protectionism, for example, and they’ve not had the job losses. It’s not brain surgery to figure this out. C’mon.

        • Angel Martin

          “The soul and purpose of the Chinese government is …”

          To lose the next World War to the India / Japan / S Korea / Vietnam / Philippines / USA coalition.

          • 李明洙

            Seems unlikely. The US alone ships china very nearly $1 billion PER DAY. Hardly on the brink of war. Anyway, perhaps you could answer the question/challenge? We know the West isn’t about democracy promotion or individual rights. Can you tell me what’s left? I wouldn’t dream of asking for them to at least protect and promote the unique identities and cultures of the white, European peoples. So what else is there? Seems to us that there’s nothing. Your countries are just used by your rich as vehicles of wealth creation for themselves, and your rich LOVE China.

          • Angel Martin

            You are right that West stands for nothing. And that the Western elite enriches themselves by destroying their own countries.

            Unfortunately for you, India, rather than China will be the beneficiary.

    • AnonymoussSoldier

      I envy China’s economic and civic nationalism. Although, there’s nothing remarkable about it. In fact, the West rose using the same means, and particularly America. It simply works. China happens to be very homogenous, so you get the added benefit of ethno nationalism, too, but that’s not nearly as important as the first two. I so wish America can get back to them as well. Sad times.

      • 李明洙

        Thank you for putting it more succinctly. Although, you shouldn’t hold your breath. The billionaires control your business and your government, and they happily sell out millions of Americans to turn their $1,000,000,000 into $1,000,000,0100. Been happening for decades now. And I think we disagree about which is most important. Ethno homogeneity and ethno nationalism make the other two at least a little easier.

  • Trajan Fanzine

    Today’s headline re: the FDP walking out on a Merkel coalition is so apropos here..

  • TNICensorship

    Whoa? Why TAI deleting comments? If you like deleting comments, I can tell some talented individuals about this site who’ll leave hundreds. Sound good?

    • 明洙李

      I guess they made an exception for me! I used no profanity, no spam, and didn’t threaten anyone. They are complete fools if they think they can stop me from commenting. Also, they might get 100+ friends of mine to drop by and raid the comments just for kicks. They like deleting comments so I might just give them thousands to delete.

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