mead berger shevtsova garfinkle michta grygiel blankenhorn bayles
The European Immigration Crisis
Are the Germans Vindicating Orban?
Features Icon
show comments
  • Jim__L

    “Which means the choice may indeed come down to Orbanism or Merkelism.
    And in this environment, that’s not one the elites can necessarily count
    on winning.”

    Which means there’s a great big opening for a third party or non-establishment candidate to rise. =) It really shouldn’t be that hard to come up with national policies that are neither as feckless as the elites or as ruthless as the Orbans.

    Things could change very fast in this environment — failing elites, pressing issues… the whole system could use a housecleaning, from the elites down to the universities that produce them, to the society that fails to reproduce itself.

    The politics of the last half-century has failed – from the multicult, to 2nd/3rd wave feminism, to secularism, to anti-nationalism. Europe has survived Muslim invasions before, although never before have they taken so much territory in European heartlands. It’s going to be interesting times turning the tide back again.

    • Andrew Allison

      What we are seeing here is the total detachment from reality, and the interests of their constituents on the part of the ruling elites of Europe and the US. Is it any wonder that the natives are increasingly restless?

      • ljgude

        Yes, remarkably similar with Hillary and Trump. Political correctness taken to absurd lengths results in very outspoken types – populists is one word for them I suppose – being the only ones with the courage to utter the prohibited sentiments. But it is all about words for these overeducated morons – and I say that as an overeducated moron myself. A recent non verbal example here in Australia left me gasping for air. It seems some young chaps in Melbourne set up hidden cameras and then dressed up as Muslims in white knee length garments that also covered their heads and went up to strangers and thrust largish black backpacks through car windows or onto escalators and ran away. All or none of the victims of the prank may have been multiculturalists – I suppose we shall never know – but they all fled as fast as their little feet could carry them exhibiting the sincerest bodily signs of true belief. God is indeed great.

    • solstice

      Japan, South Korea, and China are secular states that are not experiencing this particular crisis because they do not allow hordes of Third World Muslims to infest their countries. So the problem cannot be attributed to secularism. What Western Europe has done is replace the old dogma of Christianity (which caused its own nightmares when it was in a position of strength) with the new dogma of political correctness, which is a religion in every sense of the word.

      • Jim__L

        China and Japan are experiencing demographic collapse as well.

        Secularism is a disaster.

        • solstice

          Those countries certainly face challenges, but their secularism has not led them to adopt Western Europe’s insane immigration policies, which is what I was referring to. And if secularism is such a disaster, why is it that the most religious state in the union (Mississippi) is also the poorest and the fattest? A larger dose of secularism and would certainly remedy many of that state’s problems. The countries in the world with the highest rates of religiosity are sub-Saharan African and Islamic–not exactly shining beacons of prosperity and ethical behavior.

          Sure, China, Korea, and Japan face a major challenge with aging populations, but they will do what rational, secular people do best in the face of challenges: innovate and adapt. New technologies will emerge that will help care for the elderly, euthanasia might become more socially acceptable, and radical advances in medicine will offset many of the problems that come with old age. Population decline will also bring benefits: more arable land, no more overcrowdedness, less stress on the environment, less net human suffering, and fewer expenditures on raising children.

          • Jim__L

            Wow. Talk about being blinded by ideology.

            All the “benefits” you list for declining population are subject to the limitations of the Prisoner’s Dilemma.

            If a neighboring culture decides *not* to adopt declining demographics, the culture(s) accepting declining demographics will be overwhelmed, no matter what immigration policies happen to be.

            The future belongs to whomever shows up.

          • solstice

            “Wow. Talk about being blinded by ideology.”

            You are of course referring to yourself and other indoctrinated faith heads.

            What religious countries with high birth rates will be swamping Japan, Korea, or China in the foreseeable future? Nigeria? Somalia? Senegal? Please. Advanced societies that want to keep people out can keep people out. With its military forces and technology, Europe could have easily kept out these Muslim migrants. If it possessed the will, it could deport all of the Muslims currently living in Europe.

          • Jim__L

            That’s an open question. If France wants to deport all Muslims, it might be that it can’t.

            The young and fit people who would be necessary to use the sort of force necessary to deport millions of Muslims are in short supply in France. Half of the young men in France are Muslim. Literally, half.

            If the Muslims don’t want to leave — if it comes to urban guerilla warfare — France may or may not win.

            As every year goes by, their chances get lower and lower… because secular nations tend not to be able to reproduce themselves.

          • solstice

            In the Middle East and North Africa, birth rates are rapidly plummeting and a crisis exists in which many women of marriage age are unable to marry (I witnessed this personally). In Europe, the birth rates of Muslim communities (backward as they are) are rapidly converging with those of native populations. Furthermore, the people who are making the greatest impact on the present and who will shape the future are not the religionists who breed like rabbits but rather secular, low-fertility types who work in the STEM fields. It is these types of people who are behind the recent explosive growth of computer power and who are behind the self-driving cars and free solar energy that are coming our way. They are behind all of the current nanotechnology, genetic, brain, and artificial intelligence research that will alter the human species dramatically this century. This research carries the potential of curing our most intractable diseases, reversing the aging process, radically increasing our lifespans, cleaning up the planet and making us smarter and stronger. Compared to the people involved in this work, the religious are passengers on planet earth getting a free ride. They will reap all of the benefits of this research while having contributed virtually nothing to it.

          • Jim__L

            What in the world makes you think that those of us with religious convictions aren’t making our contributions in Silicon Valley? At my church the older generation of high-tech, highly-educated Lockheed and Ames engineers is giving way to a new generation of hardware / software engineers and technical program managers for such places as Google. Sure, we’re losing a few of the new generation to other parts of the country, but there are only so many openings at the Stanford Linear Collider, so to actually use their PhD’s they have to get jobs at Fermilab and other places. Yes, it’s tough to support kids here in the Valley, even obscenely hard. But we still manage that too.

            Solstice, you’re a little bit confused about whether scientific and technological progress are consistent with religion. For literally centuries, Christian cultures (Protestant in particular, but Catholic as well in recent years) have been the places demonstrating scientific progress — and replacement-rate fertility.

            If you want to talk about how Muslim and Hindu cultures are not so inclined, I would leave it to representatives of those religions to make their case. But the idea that somehow Christianity is incompatible with science and technology is simply bunk.

            Oh, and if the default moral sentiment of Silicon Valley deviates too far from default Christian morality in the name of “progress”, your life well may be extended long enough to see what sort of a dystopia that leads to.

            Wernher von Braun said it best, of new technology — and this is as applicable to peace as to war, as technology can be used for both —

            “We knew that we had created a new means of warfare, and the question as
            to what nation, to what victorious nation we were willing to entrust
            this brainchild of ours was a moral decision more than anything else. We
            wanted to see the world spared another conflict such as Germany had
            just been through, and we felt that only by surrendering such a weapon
            to people who are guided by the Bible could such an assurance to the
            world be best secured.”

            And you know what? History has vindicated him completely.

  • David Heller

    Exactly the same impotence if the political elites in the U.S. have empowered the populist movements of Trump and Sanders in the current election cycle. Greece, the U.K., and even Japan are moving down this same road.

    The current world order is being re-ordered as we speak.

    Tighten your seat-belts. It’s going to be a bumpy ride.

  • jeburke

    It strikes me that the most “ugly” or “vile” guy in this situation is Jaeger, who is transparently trolling for Muslim votes as he throws elementary standards of decency overboard.

    Memo to TAI: “Orbanism” is a faint reflection if Magyar nationalism which loomed large in central European history at least from 1948. And why, indeed, should a few million Magyars not place front and center the preservation of their unique and in many ways admirable culture? TAI recognizes the utter cluelessness of “liberal elite” leaderships from Berlin to Detroit. Alas, for some reason, it seems unable to stop calling nasty names on those who take it upon themselves to counter the disastrous consequences of that cluelessness.

    • Tom

      Well, overreaction is a problem, and backlash can be taken too far–Nazism, for example, can be easily seen as an attempt to counter communism.
      That having been said, while Orban’s a blithering idiot, others are not, and distinguishing between them is necessary.

    • Boritz

      And note that the architects of the disastrous are labeled as “centrists” in the last paragraph quite without irony.

    • jeburke

      Slovakia gets on board. And let’s not forget Poland.

      Taking into account the partial policy reversal of Sweden recently, can anyone seriously contend that Merkel won’t soon have to change her tune? Today brings news that 18 of the 31 men so far identified as assailants in the Cologne New Year’s outrage were “asylum seekers.”

  • Beauceron

    There will not be a West within 50 years.
    Thank your local Leftist.

  • Fat_Man

    “if even terrorist attacks such as Paris and incidents against women, … in Cologne cannot get the centrists to focus on popular concerns about immigration, … what ever will?”

    Nothing, The political and economic elites in Europe, and the US, hate their lower orders with a passion and fury that they cannot muster for any foreign enemies.

    The entire EU project is an attempt to create a form of government almost completely without popular input.

    In both the EU and the US immigration policies are intended to replace the working class with foreigners who will be more pliant and respectful. Their social policies are intended to turn the lower classes into a dependent population too addled from drugs and alcohol to be politically effective.

    Both the US and Europe will probably devolve into civil wars, the outcomes of which are completely unpredictable. Although I do like the chances of flyover US vs. the northeast and west coasts. We can cutoff their food and their energy.

    • Jon Mac

      I like the last two sentences.

    • Jon Mac

      I do like the last two sentences. It gives me hope.

  • J K Brown

    The citizen must not be so narrowly circumscribed in his activities that, if he thinks differently from those in power, his only choice is either to perish or to destroy the machinery of state.

    Mises, Ludwig von (2010-12-10). Liberalism (p. 59). Ludwig von Mises Institute. Kindle Edition.

  • adk
  • gabrielsyme

    Orban was vindicated long ago. We are just waiting to see how long it takes for reality to mug liberals.

  • Rodney

    I have a comment and a question.
    The comment relates to an unwritten social contract involving the host/guest relationship, of which immigration is an example. Generally, the host has certain rights and responsibilities, as does the guest. With respect to immigration, our elite has in recent years tended to overemphasize guest rights and minimize host rights. Here in the US, one example I have noted, is the encouragement of Hispanic students to observe their holidays such as Cinco de Mayo while simultaneously strongly discouraging American students from displays of patriotism (e.g. prohibition of wearing American flag t-shirts or displaying American flags on personal vehicles in school parking lots) to avoid offending the tender sensitivities of our guests. It seems to me that this dynamic is in play.
    The question relates to the large population of Central Asian Muslim migrants working in Russian cities. Do the Russians have the same problems that are being seen in western Europe? If not, what are they doing that we westerners are not doing? I am no fan of Putin but am interested in how the Russians are handling the problem.

© The American Interest LLC 2005-2017 About Us Masthead Submissions Advertise Customer Service