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Europe's Putin Problem
Russia Hacks German Parliament

One day after a Pew poll showed only 38 percent of Germans view Russia as a threat to its neighbors (other than Ukraine), news has broken that Russia hacked the Bundestag. The Times (of London) reports:

Russian hackers were accused yesterday of being behind a damaging cyberattack on the German parliament that could require a complete overhaul of computer equipment, costing millions of euros.

The invasion of the main Bundestag system was spotted a month ago but investigators have now admitted that the trojan program has not been closed down properly and may still be stealing private data.

A trail appears to lead to an “eastern intelligence community”, Der Spiegel magazine reported yesterday, leading experts to suggest that the SVR, the Russian foreign intelligence service, was behind the attack.

Many German commentators (and a few outside Germany) seem to be tempted to draw a parallel to the NSA phone tapping allegations revealed by Edward Snowden. But the two cases are not alike. The latter was an embarrassing revelation of something (spying) that all allies do to one another but, like a mistress in a French marriage, would prefer not to talk about.

Putin’s online endeavors represent something entirely, and not only because spying among enemies is qualitatively different than among allies. As a New York Times Magazine piece by Adrian Chen vividly illustrated last week, Russia’s cyber capabilities are being increasingly harnessed to spread confusion, doubt, and even panic (he describes a faked oil refinery explosion in Louisiana) among Russia’s enemies. They are, in other words, as much about expanding the reach of hybrid warfare as about traditional intelligence gathering.

And Putin often prefers to develop capabilities and then sit on them, waiting for the opportune moment. Imagine, for instance, the potential for paralysis in the opening hours of an incursion by “little green men” (unmarked Russian special ops troops) into the Baltic states if Russian intelligence services were able to mess with the Bundestag’s computer systems or French TV networks (one of which the article reports was also hacked).

European center-left intellectuals during the Cold War would often frame things as a Russian-American fight in which they were caught in the middle. (Some would take this argument one step further and recommend a shift toward neutrality.) Insofar as that was ever true (hint: not very), it’s even less so now. The Germans at this juncture are the undisputed leaders of their continent and its order, which Russia in turn is set on disrupting— if not overturning. A retiring America is, at least for the time being, less involved as an ally and less certain as a deterrent than many would like.

And so right now for the Germans, to paraphrase Trotsky, you may not be interested in rivalry with Russia, but Russia is interested in rivalry with you.

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  • JR

    What are the odds that we are gonna get a Dan Greene take on that will boil down to him accusing TAI of hypocrisy? I’d say 1:10.

    • Dale Fayda

      Is that a trick question, JR?

      If Russian tanks are seen rolling down Fifth Ave. in NYC, Dan Greene will still come out with a post about how Russia is not a threat to the US or to anyone else and it’s all just an very elaborate neo-con ruse.

      • JR

        You’re right, it is a trick question. But you used your Yiddishekopf to get the right answer.

        • Dan Greene

          I doubt that. First he’d have to pull it out of…wherever it is.

          • JR

            Well, he predicted what you would write with 100% accuracy. The fact that different people can predict what you would write should be a sign that your repertoire has grown a touch stale. But hey, what do I know. Love the ad hominem attack on Dale BTW. Another Dan Greene staple: attacking those who disagree…

          • Dan Greene

            No, a “prediction” comes before. It’s not really a prediction when it comes 10 minutes after my post.

          • JR

            Look at time stamps. MY post was 2hrs ago, your first post was 38 minutes ago. So I predicted that you would write something accusing TAI of hypocricy and how there is no evidence whatsoever a while ago. I think of myself as an intelligent person, but that prediction could have been made by anyone who reads this blog. Dale just took it to its logical comical extreme.

          • Dan Greene

            Look at your post: “he [Fayda] predicted what you would write with 100% accuracy…

          • JR

            I can’t read anyone’s mind, but I think the general thrust of the comment was making fun of your reflexive pro-Russian take on any and all TAI posts dealing with Russia. But sure, he did not predict what you would write. I predicted what you would write and he just made fun of you in response to my thread AFTER you posted something that, tough love time, was really really predictable.

          • Dan Greene

            He may not be able to predict–except after the fact, but at least he doesn’t share your penchant for trying to change a comment after it’s already been replied to.

            Do you often go back and try to change one of your embarrassing comments to cover up the evidence trail? I see the “Weak US Policy Makes Life Harder” article–the site of your faux pas–just below this string and it’s making me smile.

          • JR

            Like I said on that string, I forgot for one second about just how delusional you are. I fully admitted my mistake and apologized for it. But once again, I’m sorry I forgot that you live in your own reality. I promise to not forget next time.

          • Dan Greene

            You must admit though, the sheer comedy of you trying to go back and surreptitiously change your absurd comment once you realized how embarrassing it really was is absolutely priceless. And then the way you acted when you were caught! Too funny.

          • JR

            It was super embarrassing!!!! There I was, talking to you as if you inhabit the same reality as the rest of us! What the $!@$#@$ was I thinking? I changed my comment the second I realized how wrong I was. But you are right, treating you seriously for even one moment was totally absurd and ridiculous behavior on my part. Listen, when you are right, you are right. I deserve every bit of ridicule I get for forgetting you’re delusional.

          • Dan Greene

            I think you might want to have a psychoanalyst check out your compulsive need to try and erase evidence when it turns out to be embarrassing to you.

            How long have you had this issue with mendacity and trying to change your comments ex post facto without anyone noticing?

          • JR

            I changed it before you posted your comment. But whatever makes you feel better. I still find it funny that you are focused on that and not how you made the story that didn’t have words “syria”,”iran” or “obama” in it to be a story about Syria, Iran and Obama. But since attacking me seems to be what makes you feel better, go ahead. I already apologized about taking you seriously enough times. Once again, I’m sorry. I will not make the mistake of taking you seriously again. I have nothing more to add to this topic. So you can reply one more time, feel like you had the last word, and whatever else you get out of it.

          • Dan Greene

            Oh, now you’re simply compounding your dishonesty. If you had changed it before I commented, I could not have quoted from it before you obliterated the humiliating evidence. Go back and refresh your memory–if you have the moral courage to do so, which I doubt.

            You really do have a problem telling the truth, don’t you?

            As I said in the “Weak US Policy Makes Life Harder for Middle East Liberals” string, you should get a job in the Ministry of Truth. You obviously have a talent for getting rid of inconvenient information down the memory hole.

          • Dale Fayda

            I predicted that you would be a tool and I was right.

          • Dan Greene

            Did you predict that I would give your buddy another beat-down?

          • Dale Fayda

            Beat-down? You write words on a computer screen, you fool! That’s ALL this is! There is no way to measure the insignificance of what you and everyone else here write in the comment section of this obscure blog. Is this your only source of self-esteem?

            Get a life, you pathetic soul. I’ll say it again – you’re total tool, in love with his own sense of intellectual superiority.

          • Dan Greene

            Gee, Dale, you sound enraged. Do you think maybe you have anger issues?

            Tell you what–once the shrink finishes with JR, I’ll send him your way.

          • Dale Fayda

            Enraged? He, he, he… You misread me entirely, Dan. I don’t believe in “shrinks”. That’s for metro-testicled liberals like you.

          • Dan Greene

            I don’t know–you sure seem enraged. But OK, I’ll take your word for it.

          • JR

            Using logic with Dan Greene? Good luck to you Sir. I find reasoning with delusional people to be annoying, while making fun of them to be delightful.

          • JR

            Um, yeah. Dan Greene said that Dan Greene won an argument. That is pure Dan Greene gold right there! And hey listen, maybe in your reality you did win. Too bad you are the only person who lives in that reality.

      • Dan Greene

        So should I infer that you disagree with my post above? Please elaborate.

  • Dan Greene

    >>”A trail appears to lead to an “eastern intelligence community”, Der Spiegel magazine reported yesterday, leading experts to suggest that the SVR, the Russian foreign intelligence service, was behind the attack.”

    Wow–now that’s what I call rock-solid intelligence.

    I mean, come on, if there is evidence that the Russian government is launching hostile computer network attacks on the German government, mightn’t we get something more than some unspecified source who won’t even say “RUSSIA!” How much credibility does that really have?

    And as always, I’ll ask the obvious question: What would the Russian motive be?

    TAI speculates that the motive is to “disrupt German leadership of the continent.” Could they possibly come up with less convincing speculation?

    Why would the Germans not just come out with the evidence and sever relations, if the Russian government is behind it? Let me guess: The Germans are so cowed by Putin that they daren’t even accuse him publicly, no matter what the alleged damage. That’s got to be the TAI answer, right?

    This is probably either a false flag by somebody who wants to add to the anti-Russia hype or some hyper-nationalist group in Russia like the idiots who rode their motorcycles to Berlin to celebrate the Red Army’s destruction of the Third Reich. But do those kinds of folks really have the computer smarts to even attempt this sort of thing? Almost certainly not.

    Bottom line: Provide some real evidence and then we can proceed.

    • JR

      “What would the Russian motive be?” Just to make sure, this is a real question, right? This is not a rhetorical trick, not a way to obfuscate anything. You just genuinely don’t understand why intelligence agencies might want to gather information on foreign governments, especially if those governments are one of the leading voices in Europe advocating for sanctions in your country? You don’t get it it at all? Is that correct? Did I in any way mis-represent what you wrote?

      • Dan Greene

        Don’t be obtuse. Any value gained by a destructive hack of Germany’s government network by Russia is overwhelmingly likely to be superceded by the damage caused by the potential for being caught. The Russians know that the Germans have network defense and monitoring capabilities. You have to think cost-benefit, not just benefit and risk-reward, not just reward. The last thing the Russians want is to do something with marginal benefit that risks intensifying anti-Russian sentiment in Europe and especially Germany.

        As I said, let’s see some real evidence and then we can proceed. I doubt we’ll see it, but who knows.

  • Dan Greene

    What are the odds that JR will actually provide a value-added comment rather than idly speculating about what I might say?

    • JR

      I just find it hilarious that you think you provide insight when I can easily predict not just what you are gonna say about every single post, but how you are going to say it, what tropes you are going to use, etc etc etc…. It’s a game I like to play…

      • Dan Greene

        Why are you so preoccupied with whether I provide insight or “think” I provide insight? Why don’t you provide some yourself?

        • JR

          I’m not preoccupied at all. While some find your negativity and desire to slander your opponents wearisome, I find it hilarious. So I’m doing something that amuses me.
          As for my insight, what would you like to know?

          • Dan Greene

            Definitely preoccupied.

          • JR

            I just like how predictable you are. It’s like watching the waves rolling across the ocean. In this uncertain world, it’s nice to know that we can all depend on something being immutable, unchangeable. And if there is one thing in this world that is immutable and unchangeable and easily predictable, it is your posts on TAI.

          • Dan Greene

            Actually, your telling me how “predictable” I am is the most predictable thing here–that and your content-free posting.

          • JR

            So we are both getting something out of this. And I like to think I add insight in some postings, but I will freely admit that our 95+ comment back and forth are devoid of content.

          • Dan Greene

            Speak for yourself.

          • JR

            You think my posts trying to get you to rant about homosexual souls are insightful? Thanks man. There is something to be said about having something you love doing appreciated.

          • Dan Greene

            And by “homosexual souls,” I assume you are referring to the use of that term by the new Israeli Deputy Defense Minister to assert that EVEN homosexual Jews are superior to non-Jews. Is that what you are talking about? Yep–sure am happy about subsidizing a government that includes him.

            A bit OT, but you’re right. It deserves to be condemned in any forum.

          • JR

            Thanks mate. I needed the chuckle. You know how us dual loyalists are.
            P.S. I’m making fun of you thinking I have dual loyalties. I’ve learned to be very specific.

          • Dan Greene

            So do you think we should force Israel to get rid of that guy? After all, we do subsidize Israel. Shouldn’t we at least expect not to be labeled racial inferiors by them? What do you say?

          • JR

            I just want to say how proud I am, as an American taxpayer, to support a country that in the middle of the intolerant Middle East allows different people to live their lives in a manner they choose. May God bless the Unites State of America!!!
            http://news.yahoo.com/israeli-arab-drag-queen-finds-refuge-tel-aviv-091601708.html

          • Dan Greene

            But why does that country have senior officials who say that non-Jews are inherently inferior to Jews? Can you explain that, JR? Should we really have to subsidize something like that?

          • JR

            I don’t know. I’ve never seen that as an official position of any government. I just really enjoy knowing how we, as Americans, support Israel. Makes me proud, it does!!

          • Dan Greene

            So you are proud of racist Israeli ministers who tell American non-Jews that they are his inferiors and just to keep forking over the tax money? Sorry, but your unwillingness to condemn him and the government that hires him seems to make you complicit.

          • JR

            I already told me that I disagreed with that statement. Do I feel proud of a country that allows people Karam Dadu, a tranvestite homosexual Arab, to live their life the way they see fit without a fear of persecution? Yes, yes I do.

          • Dan Greene

            Yes, I finally managed to extract a reluctant statement to that effect from you after after hours of evasion on your part.

            But that is totally inadequate. Do you agree that he must be fired? And that failure to do so by the Israeli government should lead to immediate punitive actions by the USG?

          • JR

            Seems adequate to me. Should countries base their foreign policy based on wishes of delusional posters on anonymous Internet boards? Probably not.
            I mean, we are trying to negotiate with a country whose Supreme Leader leads chants of “Death to America”. Doesn’t give me the warm and fuzzies.

          • Dan Greene

            So leaving a racist Deputy Defense Minister in office in Israel so he can continue to spew his venom against non-Jews seems “adequate” to you, does it? And we should just shut up and continue to subsidize those who hate and despise us, is that it?

          • JR

            We absolutely should not. Thank goodness we support the country where US gets consistently the highest approval ratings anywhere in the world. See, just because one person said something once about “homosexual souls” doesn’t mean anything here, in everybody else’s reality. It does mean a lot to you, in your reality. Why do people not care about your reality? Why are government relationships not based on Dan Greene’s interpretations? I have no answers to those questions… I just think it is wonderful how we support tolerant Israeli society where people like Karam Dadu can live their lives in peace. Makes me so proud. BTW, thanks for the Habsbra (sp?) tip. I signed up to be one of the sponsors to help send somebody to Israel to learn about that beautiful land. I made sure to mention your name as an inspiration when asked what prompted my interest in the program. Thank you!!!

          • Dan Greene

            JR: “I just think it is wonderful how we support tolerant Israeli society”

            Israeli Dep Def Min Ben-Dahan: “A Jew always has a much higher soul than a gentile, even if he is a homosexual.”

            How can you possibly make that sort of excuse for this vicious goy-hater and all he stands for? Why would any American want his tax dollars going to subsidize the government that would employ him?

          • JR

            Because one man’s words are not as important as how society behaves? I know, weird, right? I get it, your irrational Jew-hatred prevents you from understanding this. And in a sense, I’m sorry about it. But since Walter Russel Mead put it way much better than I ever could, I’ll leave this (repetitive) discussion with a quote from him.
            The fact that you don’t understand why one obscure quote from one obscure guy is not having the effect you want it in the world of ISIS, nuclear proliferation, etc etc etc is a perfect example of somebody who doesn’t “quiet get modern life”.

            Start Quote.
            This news shouldn’t surprise. Anti-Semitism appears and flourishes among those who don’t quite get modern life, who jump to simplistic but powerful seeming generalizations about cause and effect in a complex world. The world of the anti-Semite may be dark, with all-powerful, string-pulling Jews controlling everything behind the scenes, but the simplicity and clarity of that picture outweighs the darkness: the anti-Semite thinks he understands the world, and that helps ease the pain of feeling tossed about by incomprehensible forces.

            But the clarity is false. The anti-Semite is still baffled, confused and at sea; he or she just doesn’t know it. It’s not surprising that someone laboring under these conceptual handicaps would make foolish life choices and bad investment decisions. Even more alienated and embittered because those poor choices have real consequences, the anti-Semite feels more victimized than ever, and attributes the natural result of his or her poor choices to the scheming Jews who make sure that no gentile will ever get an even break.

          • Dan Greene

            The issue is not simply “his words.” Your repeated attempts to ringfence “his words” from the political party of which he is a member, the government which chose him as a senior official and the culture that produced him is tantamount to an endorsement, your reluctant claims to the contrary notwithstanding.

            First, it is NOT one man anyway. Here are the words of another anti-goy racist whose party, Shas, was in the Israeli government for years with him as the party’s spiritual head. Behold the late Ovadia Yosef (he of unblessed memory):

            “The sole purpose of non-Jews is to serve Jews”. He said that Gentiles served a divine purpose: “Why are Gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat. That is why Gentiles were created.”

            How many of these creatures do we need to hear before we wonder about the “tolerant society” that produces them and the enlightened government that is quite willing to hire them? Why should any of us be content to subsidize them?

            You really have no desire to take any action against ben-Dahan, do you? You just want the issue to go away, don’t you?

            If a US official made any remark a fraction of what these disgusting individuals have said, you would be howling. But when it comes to Jewish racism in connection with Israel or otherwise, you’re oh-so-copacetic with the whole thing.

            The stink of moral hypocrisy lies heavy on the air.

          • JR

            Yeah, i mean you are repeating the old anti-Semitic BS straight out of “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”. Where everyone else sees the most open society in the Middle East, where people like Karam Dadu, a tranvestite homosexual Arab, can live the way they choose, where women occupy the highest levels of government, where there are transgender commanders in IDF, where people continuously support the US, you see something that is bad and evil. It’s Dan Greene vs. the world. I just find your anger at why the world refuses to bend to your wishes confusing.

          • Dan Greene

            How classic:

            An Israeli official says “A Jew always has a much higher soul than a gentile,” and what is the issue for JR?

            “Anti-semitism,” of course! So really, for JR, Jewish racism is not a problem in and of itself. It’s only a problem because it might generate “anti-semitism.” You just have to love that mental state.

            But this is the bizarre, moral inversion of JR’s mind. Who else shares this repellent psychological state? One would hope he stands alone in this condition. One would hope…

          • JR

            People say things I disagree with all the time. Am I supposed to work myself into a hyper-ventilating outrage at every single instance? I just love how you don’t seem to get why this one quote from this one guy is failing to generate the outrage you feel. So to answer your question, no, I do not want ben-Dahan issue to go away. I like seeing you choke on bile when you mention it. Why do you think I keep on reminding you about it?

          • Dan Greene

            You are SUPPOSED to stop evading the issue. The issue is that the Israeli governments expects–no, demands–to be subsidized by the US taxpayer while enjoying the freedom to hire senior officials who display their contempt for non-Jews and American tax donkeys in general without fear of any retribution.

            You are SUPPOSED to put an end to the moral inversion in your whining that somehow this is about something other than Jewish racism.

            And you are SUPPOSED to provide a forthright denunciation of this Israeli government and agree with the demand that either ben-Dahan and those who think and speak like him go or US tax dollars stop flowing into the Israeli treasury.

            THAT is what you are supposed to do.

          • JR

            See, this is why I have these conversations with you. You frequently make me chuckle, but sometimes (like that last post) you make me have a really good laugh. You know, the kind that starts in a belly and makes your whole body shake? Good stuff. Also, not to be pedantic but you keep using the word “supposed”. I will leave aside it’s meanings such as “assumed as true, regardless of fact; hypothetical:” because that is just too easy.

            Instead, I will focus on the other meaning of the word, namely ” required by or as if by AUTHORITY”. Capitalization is mine. That’s what made me laugh. Authority? Whose authority? Yours? Oh man, that is some really funny stuff. I think your assessment of your authority is somewhat out of line with your actual authority.

            If you think US should cut it’s aid to Israel, contact your local representative. I’m sure they would absolutely LOVE to hear from you. I’m positive your well reasoned arguments about homosexual souls will really persuade them. They are the decision makers, so take it up with them. If they are not persuaded, maybe it’s because your argument makes no sense to anyone other than yourself. Something to think about. But since I don’t make the government budget, I don’t understand what you want me to do.

            I’m not whining about anything. I am making fun of you for being a rabid anti-Semite. i don’t support racism of any kind, including Jewish one.

            I’m supposed to provide a denunciation of a government because you don’t like what somebody said once? Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds? Wait, don’t answer. You don’t have any idea. Otherwise you would not have written what you did.

            Anyway, always a pleasure chatting with you. I realize that poking at your weak spot and than making fun of you spewing bile is not nice. But it sure is funny.

          • Dan Greene

            I reiterate: The issue is that the Israeli governments expects–no, demands–to be subsidized by the US taxpayer while enjoying the freedom to hire senior officials who display their contempt for non-Jews and American tax donkeys in general without any fear of retribution.

            You have said nothing to indicate that you are willing to support any real actions taken to end this absurd situation and are clearly hoping that a few honeyed and insincere words will be enough to extract you from the fix in which you find yourself.

            When you are ready to confront your problem, then come talk to me.

          • JR

            And I said, if that is your problem, you should talk to people who have authority to do something about it. So go ahead and do it. If you are not doing, if you are not contacting your elected representatives on a local and state level EVERY SINGLE DAY to DEMAND the end of aid to Israel, than you don’t think it’s a problem. And if you don’t think it’s a problem, then why should I? If you are calling your representatives and nothing is happening, than perhaps your arguments are not persuasive. You should find something that will make sense to somebody other than yourself.
            What real actions do you have in mind? I mean, REAL actions? And no, posting on anonymous Internet boards does not count as a real action.

          • Dan Greene

            Why do you keep evading the responsibility to condemn language like this and to agree to hold the Israeli government accountable for those who utter it while in its service:

            “The sole purpose of non-Jews is to serve Jews”. He said that Gentiles served a divine purpose: “Why are Gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat. That is why Gentiles were created.”

            Why do you excuse this behavior and the state of Israel that quite obviously condones (if not advocates) it while conniving to shift the discussion to something–anything–but the key issue. The bottom line is that you are really OK with what these guys say, because if you weren’t, you would be condemning it instead of being maneuvered into a corner by me.

            Hypocrisy pure and simple.

          • JR

            You still haven’t answered any of my questions. Talk about hypocrisy. You talk about taking action, but then you do nothing.

            And as for those quotes, I’m shocked that you even include them. For somebody who is so insistent on evidence, what evidence do you have this was spoken. Were you there? Do you have an audio recording? Otherwise, it’s all hearsay. So you want me to take action you yourself refuse to take based on hearsay? And what corner do you think I’m maneuvered into?
            BTW, your insistence on screaming that you are winning an argument when you are doing nothing of the kind is part of your charm. You are just so delusional, I mean, you don’t mean people that divorced from reality every day.

          • Dan Greene

            I have proposed action: Publicize the contempt for non-Jews being uttered by Israeli officials, demand their expulsion from the Israeli government and cut off aid if the Israeli government refuses and then watch them like a hawk.

            Do you support these obvious actions?

          • JR

            As long as we include every official from every government on Earth that ever said anything that is impolite, demand their expulsion as well, I’m on board. Too wide a net? Sure, every official of every government that received US aid. If any of these governments refuse to remove their officials, then we can advocate for removal of aid. Why focus on just one government? Some might accuse us of bias and we wouldn’t want that, now would we.
            “Obvious”? Once again, you confuse “obvious in Dan Greene’s” universe with “obvious to people who are not delusional”. You make that mistake a lot.
            And I repeat my question, other than typing on anonymous Internet boards, what have YOU, Dan Greene, done? Have you written to your representative? Have YOU called your Senator? What concrete actions have occurred because you initiated something?

          • Dan Greene

            >>”As long as we include every official from every government on Earth that ever said anything that is impolite, demand their expulsion as well, I’m on board.”

            We don’t subsidize “every government on earth.”

            And does your stipulation pertain to actions taken against “anti-semitism” as well? Would you wait until every government on Earth that “ever said anything is impolite” is brought into the dock before advocating action against something you deem to be anti-semitic? I already know the answer to my question. Because when you bring up “anti-semitism,” you never seem to worry too much about qualifications.

            Why is it that when poor, hapless Chuck Hagel said, “The political reality is that … the Jewish lobby intimidates a lot of people up here,” the whole word came down on him like a ton of bricks?

            Yet when the new Israeli Deputy Defense Minister Ben-Dahan says, “A Jew always has a much higher soul than a gentile, even if he is a homosexual,” we hear crickets chirping. Is it possible to imagine a more categorical statement of contempt for non-Jews?

            And, of course, it’s we who subsidize Israel and not the other way around. Suppose that Chuck Hagel had actually said “A Christian has a much higher soul than a Jew.” Think he would have gotten confirmed? And what would you have been doing, JR besides howling and demanding his head? And yet there sits ben Dahan, cool as a cucumber, unmolested either by the government of Israel or the USG, and there go our tax dollars into the Israeli treasury, and here you sit, quibbling about what I have done when you are not even willing to condemn the government that employs him.

            Hypocrisy pure and simple.

          • JR

            Way to avoid the question of what you have done other than write on anonymous Internet boards. That leads me to believe you have done nothing. Why have you done nothing, Dan Greene? Why is that? You are an Internet warrior. You try to create action by typing furiously. And then you wonder why nobody else gives a fudge? That’s awesome dude. Never change.

            And I like how you know what I would have done in an alternative universe THAT DOESN’T EVEN EXIST. Do you ever stop and actually think what it is you are claiming? Don’t answer that, I don’t want to know.

            Also, when have I ever advocated doing anything? You are the one who is in advocating business not me.

            And while we are on the subject of condemning governments, how come you don’t condemn the government that chants “Death to America”? How about the government that gases it’s own people? Oh wait…. You don’t do that…..

            BTW, the aid is about to go up. Looks like people in charge were not persuaded by your arguments. Have you considered that maybe that one quote is not very powerful to anyone but you? I for one, could care less about, OTHER than in the context of making you go into rage.
            http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-asking-us-for-50-increase-in-next-defense-package/

          • Dan Greene

            So will you condemn the government of Israel for hiring senior officials who openly say that the 98.5% of Americans who are not Jews and who SUBSIDIZE the Israeli government are inherently inferior to the “chosen people”?

            No, you won’t.

            The case against you is overwhelming.

          • JR

            The case against me? Whose case? Yours? Do you imagine yourself a judge? What else do you imagine?
            And still no answer to the question of you have actually done so far yourself. Pretty embarrassing, I must say. You’ve done nothing because you know you will get laughed out of the building if you tried. You lack the courage of your convictions. Which is sad for you and funny for me.
            Since nobody other than you believes that Israel suffers from anti-goy racism, I don’t understand your point. See, you are just confusing your own made up world with real world.

          • Dan Greene

            So then despite your protestations, you really are A-OK with the Israeli Deputy Defense Minister telling non-Jews he feels they are inferior: “A Jew always has a much higher soul than a gentile, even if he is a homosexual.”

            Really, you have a sneaking admiration for the guy, don’t you? It’s kinda cool that he can say it and get away with it, isn’t it? You fantasize that complaints about this noxious belief get slapped down, because it’s really only serious if it’s “anti-semitism,” is that about it? So for you, “anti-semitism” is wrong and everything else is negotiable.

            Hypocrisy pure and simple.

          • JR

            In your reality, one quote from one official equals the opinion of the entire government. In real world, it doesn’t. I don’t live in your reality, so I can’t play by its rules.
            And now you are reading my mind? OK…. What’s my favorite color? What number am I thinking about right now?
            That’s just so silly. In a good way. I mean, what response do you want to that? Assigning motivation to your opponent is just so weak… That’s just a sign you have no arguments to make so you make up arguments that you think the other person has so you can retreat with some dignity left. Its not even hypocrisy, it’s just funny. You funny, Dan Greene.
            And yet I noticed that you STILL haven’t answered my question as to what you have done to reduce the aid to Israel. Since we are in the mind reading business, I will tell you what I think. You haven’t done jack. You will never do jack. You are purely an Internet warrior. The anonymity of the medium gives you license to spout whatever you want, with no repercussions. That is as it should be. Internet is where people go to live out their fantasies, in your case of someone whose anti-Jewish hatred actually makes a difference. In the real world, you know that if you were to call a Senator, or a member of the House, and start talking about homosexual souls, you will just get laughed at. So you don’t do it. You are afraid of having real world interfere with your vision of who you are. So you spit bile, make cases in your head, and make pronouncements, which, let’s face it, have an audience of one. Namely me. And I sure as hell don’t care, and even if I did, I have zero ability to influence the government budget.
            I’m not innocent here either. I deliberately provoke you for my amusement. But it’s just so easy. And if watching some anti-Jewish bigot spew impotent rage that he would never dare utter if he wasn’t hidden behind a screen is wrong, that I don’t want to be right.

          • Dan Greene

            Everything you say comes down to one thing and one thing only: Don’t ask Israel–and by extension Jewry in general–to act toward non-Jews as you demand non-Jews act toward you. This entire string represents a Jewish rejection–your rejection–of the Golden Rule principle: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. You fetishize “anti-semitism” while simultaneously demanding the right to slander and slur non-Jews with impunity. Your rule is “Do unto me as I demand and I will do unto you as I see fit.” This is the spirit of Ben-Dahan’s words which you seem covertly to endorse behind a smokescreen of denials.

            The moral hypocrisy that your view represents is repulsive.

            Nowhere can you bring yourself to condemn forthrightly this sentiment: “A Jew always has a much higher soul than a gentile, even if he is a homosexual.” At no point have you been willing even to criticize much less condemn the Israeli government that condones these views.

            Dahan’s and your sense of entitlement is almost comical in its cartoonish malevolence. You demand to be subsidized by those you hold in contempt–explicitly in Dahan’s case and implicitly in yours. And you imagine that you can impose a demand that all non-Jews avert their gaze and not “notice” the hypocrisy and double standards by which you live.

            As I said above, really, you have a sneaking admiration for the guy, don’t you? It’s kinda cool that he can say it and get away with it, isn’t it? It’s a sort of chutzpuh to be able to slur others while whining constantly about being slurred, isn’t that right? You fantasize that complaints about Dahan’s noxious beliefs get slapped down, because it’s really only serious if it’s “anti-semitism,” is that about it? So for you, “anti-semitism” is wrong and everything else is negotiable.

            If anyone should notice this hatred and contempt for non-Jews, and demand that it be rectified, then this is transformed in your self-obsessed mind into “anti-semitism.”

            Well, sorry, that’s just not gonna work. It’s long past time that a relentless critique against your kind of duplicity and hypocrisy was leveled.

            As long as you’re “amused,” that’s fine. You get amusement. And I get to showcase just what the supporters of Israel and their Judeosupracism look like up close–and it ain’t pretty.

            So I’m sure that this will continue to be a win-win dialogue for us.

          • JR

            Are you copying and pasting your own comments? Man, that’s pretty weak. And I told you that I don’t think homosexual souls or whatever it is you babbling about have anything to do with anything.
            And you still haven’t done anything other than rant on an anonymous Internet board. You act all tough but when asked a simple, direct question of what you have actually DONE, you fall strangely silent. Because you haven’t done anything. And you will never do anything. You are a coward who lacks the courage of his own convictions. You can rant and rave hiding behind an avatar to an audience of one, but are deathly afraid to actually go out and say what you say here in public, where you can be judged. Is it because you are afraid that your rants about homosexual souls will be met with widespread derision? Deep down inside you know that your reality where you are showcasing something and proving something exists only in your mind. Who do you think you have convinced? Do you really think that someone what wasn’t blinded by anti-Jewish hatred like you would read your rants and think to themselves, Wow, I see the light.
            Instead you attack those who agree with me and make fun of you. You like that anonymity provided to you by the Internet. It makes you feel like you are making a difference. And you are making a difference. Because of you, I have donated money to Friends of IDF that I otherwise would not have. Because of you, I learned more about HAbsbra (sp?) fellowship and am now aware of another great Jewish charity that I can support. Who knows what difference these donations would make? I don’t, but I do know that you made them possible.

          • Dan Greene

            This is exactly what I mean.

            It’s amusing to see you attempt, in every post, to transform Jewish hatred into “Jew-hatred”. As I said below when discoursing on your comical attempts at deceptive posting practices in the “Weak US Policy Makes Life Harder for Middle East Liberals” string, there is an Orwellian quality to your repeated “freedom is slavery” attempts to accomplish this transformation.

            The more you try to convince me about how much fun it all is for you, the more obvious it is that like a cornered beast, you are turning this way and that, looking for escape or a hidey-hole where you can shelter from the truth. Once again, I am glad you’re amused. So am I.

            I will say relentlessly what needs to be said: That you and Dahan, between you, represent everything that is so dysfunctional about the US-Israel relationship.

            Here is your Golden Rule and the motto of Israel and its lobby:

            “Do unto me as I demand and I will do unto you as I see fit.”

          • JR

            And still no answer to what you have done about this problem that seems to be such a grave concern to you. Why are you avoiding that question, Dan?

          • Dan Greene

            >> “What have you done…?”

            Dragged you kicking and screaming from your hidey-hole into the light of day to confront you with the truth of your moral hypocrisy.

            Now here’s another question for you:

            Why do American taxpayers subsidize this?:

            http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/christians-in-jerusalem-want-jews-to-stop-spitting-on-them-1.137099

            “Vandals also damaged a Romanian Orthodox Church in Jerusalem, spray-painting it with the words: “price tag,” “Jesus isgarbage,” and “King David for the Jews.” It was another of a wave of both anti-Christian and anti-Arab graffiti and vandalism that has swept through Israel in recent weeks.”

            http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2014/may-web-only/price-tag-israeli-extremists-target-christians.html

            “Christian center set on fire, vandalized in Jerusalem hate crime attack: Damage done to a building
            belonging to the Greek Orthodox Church near the Old City; graffiti
            denigrating Jesus was sprayed on one of the walls.”

            http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.644285

            And even more importantly, why do Jewish acts of contempt for Christianity in Israel—spitting on clergy and vandalism of Christian churchs and shrines—get absolutely NO COVERAGE in the US mainstream media
            outlets? And yet every time a Jew complains about some slight, even when it turns out to be a hoax as in this
            case, it gets media coverage:

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/02/26/swastikas-and-other-vandalism-at-a-gw-dorm-worry-students/

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/03/18/another-swastika-at-gw-this-one-was-posted-by-a-jewish-student/?wpisrc=nl_buzz

            What could possible account for this double standard?

          • JR

            LOL. Like I said, you have done nothing. You think engaging in endless commentary with an audience of one is doing something. You think that because you are a coward who is afraid to step from behind his computer screen it somehow makes your impotent ranting important. How many people other than me will even read what you wrote? I guess the number is zero.
            And the reason nobody is protesting what you consider to be grave offenses is because Christians from the Middle East are fleeing TO Israel. I guess they are just not as enlightened as you are, huh? Because when people turn on their TV’s they see Muslims crucifying and beheading Christians, while Jews are welcoming them to Israel. Crucifying and decapitating Christians seems to get people more riled up that graffiti. That’s why there is nobody protesting. That’s the answer to your question. Most people don’t suffer from your pathological Jew-hatred and as a result don’t suffer from the same moral equivalency myopia that you do. Welcome to everybody else’s reality. Stay awhile.

            And I love your comments about hypocrisy. Not a word about the genocide of ISIS from you. Nothing about people from the US trying to join ISIS. Nope. Not a word. It might as well not exist.It doesn’t fit into your world view. So you ignore it.

          • Dan Greene

            >>”You think engaging in endless commentary with an audience of one is doing something.”

            

Pot. Kettle. Black.

            

So your answer is that there are terrible things going on in the world so shut up and accept that Jews in Israel who you say “share our values” assault Christian clergy regularly. IS is murderous, so accept that Jews spit on Christians. Don’t say anything about Jewish racism while IS is around, but I, JR, feel quite at liberty to babble on endlessly about anti-semitism. Your sophistic logic is so warped. Hypocrisy is obviously hard-wired in your brain.

            

And I guess you don’t find it as interesting as I do that Jewish racism in Israel never quite seems to make it out of the Israeli press no matter how egregious, but meanwhile, allegations of anti-semitism–even those that turn out to be hoaxes perpetrated by Jews–are national events (see the two Washington Post articles above).



            Why is that?



            JR’s “Golden Rule”: “Do unto me as I demand and I will do unto you as I see fit.”

          • JR

            But unlike you, I know that I’m talking to audience of one. Also, unlike you, I’m not claiming that I’m trying to change the world. I also don’t copy and paste my own comments.
            You can say whatever you want. Not all Jews are saints. But then you ask why is this not generating the outrage you think it should. And I answered you. You just refuse to accept that answer. You also refuse to acknowledge Christians fleeing to Israel from the rest of the ME, because that fact inconveniently disproves your entire point of view. So you claim somebody else is hypocritical while pretending that facts that don’t conform to your reality don’t exist. Pretty lame.
            So other than anonymous postings to the audience of one, what have you done to make sure other people are aware of your reality? Have you spoken to anyone who can change the USG policy you find so abhorrent? This is a simple yes or no question. By refusing to answer it, you acknowledge that you have indeed NOT spoken to anyone in the position of authority. So you are big on talk and small on action. Typical Jewish hating demagogue.

          • Dan Greene

            >> “But unlike you, I know that I’m talking to audience of one.”

            Uh, yeah, OK.

            >> “Not all Jews are saints.”

            NOT the issue. You are being typically evasive. The issue is total Jewish unwillingness–here and in Israel–to hold anti-goy Jews accountable in ANY way. You are mounting one pathetic apology after another for this behavior showing yourself to be utterly complicit.

            And another evasion: Christians fleeing persecution among Muslims is somehow an excuse for an increasingly Judeosupremacist Israel in which behavior against Christians persists and increases that, if it took place anywhere else and Jews were its subject, rather than its perpetrators, would elicit outrage from you and organized Jewry.

            That is the issue. (That and the fact that we are forced to subsidize it with tax dollars.)

            No matter how many times you try and evade it, I will drag you right back again to confront it.

            JR’s “Golden Rule”: “Do unto me as I demand and I will do unto you as I see fit.”

          • JR

            Yes, you will continue to ignore reality in favor of your own reality. And you are arguing counterfactual arguments. You are pretending to know what would occur in an alternative universe. Which is impossible to argue with since that universe does not, in fact, exist.
            But I am glad you at least admitted that you are a coward that is afraid to get up from behind his computer and do ANYTHING against what he considers to be wrong. It is very important that you took this first step. Why are you so afraid to do anything than post anonymous comments?
            And if somebody commits petty vandalism or petty crimes like spitting on somebody, I think that’s the matter for local police to take care of. Should I condemn every time any Jew does something you find disagreeable? No, I don’t think so.

          • Dan Greene

            “Should I condemn every time any Jew does something you find disagreeable? No, I don’t think so.”

            Oh, I see, you are quite willing to condemn what you label “typical Jewish hating demagoguery” from somebody who is “engaging with an audience of one,” but, “Gee,” you say, “don’t expect me to condemn those who assert that, ‘A Jew always has much higher soul than a gentile, even if he is a homosexual’ much less the Israeli government that gives them aid and comfort and a salary.”

            That’s the real difference with you isn’t it: “typical Jewish hating demagogue” vs Don’t expect me to condemn Jewish racism. I’ll get around to it if I feel like it, and I don’t feel like it–ever.

            You and organized Jewry are not too interested in “petty crimes,” eh? But you are interested in punishing free speech that is no crime at all. Why was Bruce Shipman, the Episcopal Chaplain at Yale University forced out at Yale by a the complaints of organized Jewry for saying this in a printed response to a NYT op-ed by Deborah Lipstadt?:

            “Deborah E. Lipstadt makes far too little of the relationship between Israel’s policies in the West Bank and Gaza and growing anti-Semitism in Europe and beyond. The trend to which she alludes parallels the carnage in Gaza over the last five years, not to mention the perpetually stalled peace talks and the continuing occupation of
            the West Bank. As hope for a two-state solution fades and Palestinian casualties continue to mount, the best antidote to anti-Semitism would be for Israel’s patrons abroad to press the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for final-status resolution to the Palestinian question.”

            So the same organized Jewry that, like you, is not too worried about Jewish “petty crimes” like spitting on Christian clergy and vandalism of churches in Israel, nor about Israeli government officials’ hatred and contempt for non-Jewish American taxpayers, has plenty of time to demand–successfully–that the Episcopal Chaplain at Yale be fired for exercising his free speech rights in the most moderate of criticisms of Israel.

            Hypocrisy pure and simple.

            JR’s “Golden Rule”: “Do unto me as I demand and I will do unto you as I see fit.”

          • JR

            So what is causing your cowardice, Dan Greene? Do you think avoiding hard questions makes them go away? Is that why you are hesitant to confront your own impotence in changing the world?

            I already said I don’t approve of somebody saying whatever jibberish about homosexual souls.
            Bruce Shipman was forced out because blaming Jews for causing anti-Semitism because of their goddamned Jewishness is not something that is accepted in civilized society. Why, some people may even think it is religious intolerance. And since you keep on mentioning that 98.5% of Americans are not Jewish, it appears a lot of non-Jews share my view on it. Or do you think they were pressured to act against their consciousness? Or perhaps they were bought?
            Now, you may disagree with people finding blaming Jews for everything to be distasteful. So I ask you again. What have you done to change that? What have you done to make it acceptable to start blaming Jews for anti-Semitic attacks? Nothing. You have done nothing. And you will not do anything. Because you are a coward.

          • Dan Greene

            And of course the immediate evasion from JR.

            It seems that you are even less interested in Jewish attempts to muzzle free speech in the US than you are about goy-hatred and crimes against Christian clergy in Israel.

            No love for Reverend Shipman?

            No, of course not. How dare a Christian clergyman express even the most modest criticism of Israel? It’s outrageous! And to point out that he has been destroyed by organized Jewry is…what??

            Why, “anti-semitism,” of course!

            You clearly subscribe to that repulsive “moral” code called “Is is good for the Jews?”

            Is free speech good? That’s not the question, is it? The question for you and organized Jewry is whether any particular instance of speech is “good for the Jews.” The idea that free speech should be applied across the board is rather old-fashioned, isn’t it? Free speech was great when it was time to climb the greasy pole, but now, it has quite a downside for organized Jewry, doesn’t it?

            >>”And since you keep on mentioning that 98.5% of Americans are not Jewish, it appears a lot of non-Jews share my view on it.”

            No doubt that’s true, but utterly beside the point. The point is that what the Israeli government is doing is condoning contempt for all those people while milking them for revenue, whether all of them realize it or not.

            So, in summary, you can’t be bothered with Jewish “petty crimes” in Israel like spitting on Christian clergy and vandalizing churches. You can’t be bothered with racist, anti-goy Israeli cabinet officials. And now we see that you can’t be bothered with free speech that criticizes Israel or Jewry. You’d much rather slink back into your hidey-hole and transform all of that into “anti-semitism.”

            “Where does all the hatred come from?!” you whine to the heavens. Answer: From your actions and your hypocrisy–that’s where.

            JR’s “Golden Rule”: “Do unto me as I demand and I will do unto you as I see fit.”

          • JR

            Well, you define answering your questions as evasions. While simultaneously not answering my questions. What a cognitive dissonance that might be. Still no answer as to why you cowardly refuse to do anything to change things you perceive as injustice.
            I could give a fudge about Reverend Shipman. He said something that got him fired. Happens all the time. If I were to say that Christians being beheaded in the Middle East deserve what they got because of the actions of Christians in, let’s say, Italy, I would expect to get fired as well. You are just angry that when somebody espouses anti-Semitic views, they get punished for it. You are so mad that you just can’t spew hatred, aren’t you? And here we are, back to you being a coward.
            Your arguments are based on your attempts to read my mind. That is so freakin’ lame. You make an argument that I don’t make and then you present a counter-argument. You are just talking to yourself. Like all cowards, you end up lost in a maze of your own invention, arguing with yourself.
            Dan Greene’s “Golden Rule”: ” I will just make up things I think you think and argue against that. Reality is just too hard for me. And scary.”

          • Dan Greene

            Pathetic from start to finish.

            >> “Bruce Shipman was forced out because blaming Jews for causing anti-Semitism because of their goddamned Jewishness is not something that is accepted in civilized society.”

            Well, now that really takes the cake. When it comes to moral hypocrisy, you are truly an exemplar.

            So, you are trying to tell me that it is “not something that is accepted in civilized society” to say this:

            “Deborah E. Lipstadt makes far too little of the relationship between Israel’s policies in the West Bank and Gaza and growing anti-Semitism in Europe and beyond. The trend to which she alludes parallels the carnage in Gaza over the last five years, not to mention the perpetually stalled peace talks and the continuing occupation of the West Bank. As hope for a two-state solution fades and Palestinian casualties continue to mount, the best antidote to anti-Semitism would be for Israel’s patrons abroad to press the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for final-status resolution to the Palestinian question.”

            And you are supporting his firing from Yale for saying that. But at the same time, when Rabbi Eli Ben-Dahan, the Deputy Defense Minister, says,

            “A Jew always has a much higher soul than a gentile, even if he is a homosexual,”

            you can barely be induced to say that you don’t endorse his words. And you have evaded all my demands to condemn the government of Israel for employing a Judeosupremacist of this ilk.

            For you, a moderately worded criticism of Israel is beyond the pale. You endorse Reverend Shipman’s dismissal and, by implication, the imposition of Judeosupremacist speech codes. But you have no interest in getting rid of the odious Ben-Dahan or in the US forcing the Israeli government to do so.

            Jewish hypocrisy should not longer be terribly shocking. But somehow, JR, you manage to give it a little added repulsiveness. You are the quintessential hypocrite in the synagogue.

            JR’s “Golden Rule”: “Do unto me as I demand and I will do unto you as I see fit.”

          • JR

            Yes, you are pathetic from start to finish. Glad we agree on something.

            And you are right, implying that children murdered at the Jewish school in France because Hamas refuses to recognize the existence of Israel and thus refuses to negotiate IS unacceptable in civilized society. You are just not part of that society. You exist in reality where it IS acceptable. Your anger is not at me, but at the fact that people refuse to live and act according to your rules. Please understand, not everyone is as blinded by the Jew-hatred as you are. That’s why you fail to understand even simple things like why Shipman was fired.

            And while I don’t think Rabbi Ben-Dahan should be fired, apparently a lot of Jews do.
            http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Ben-Dahan-must-go-336815
            I’m curious, when you claim that no Jews will dare question Ben-Dahan and then post links to Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper, does your brain process the cognitive dissonance? Does it? Or no? I guess not.

            But let’s assume everyone is wrong and you are right. What have you done to change it? That’s right, nothing. And why have you done nothing? Because you are a coward, hiding behind a screen.

            Dan Greene’s “Golden Rule”: ” I will just make up things I think you think and argue against that. Reality is just too hard for me. And scary. And I’m way too much of a coward to do anything about it.”

          • Dan Greene

            Now that you have outed yourself as a proponent of “free speech for me but not for thee,” I must admit that I’m fascinated by the mind that can assert without shame that this speech should be censored:

            “Deborah E. Lipstadt makes far too little of the relationship between Israel’s policies in the West Bank and Gaza and growing anti-Semitism in Europe and beyond. The trend to which she alludes parallels the carnage in Gaza over the last five years, not to mention the perpetually stalled peace talks and the continuing occupation of the West Bank. As hope for a two-state solution fades and Palestinian casualties continue to mount, the best antidote to anti-Semitism would be for Israel’s patrons abroad to press the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for final-status resolution to the Palestinian question.”

            So please tell us how you can think that Rabbi/Dep Min Def Ben-Dahan should not be fired for his explicit anti-goy racism and simultaneously support the firing of Reverend Shipman for articulating reasonably and very mildly expressed views on Israel/Palestine. What could your rationalization for such hypocrisy possibly be?

            By the way, love the Dan Greene Golden Rule. After all, if you can’t innovate, copy someone else! Guess your Yiddishekopf must be on the blink today–or maybe it’s up…well you know.

          • JR

            And you still cowardly refuse to answer my question. So let me repeat it: What have you done to change the policy that you so oppose? Have you contacted anyone in the position of authority? If not, why are you such a coward? I like how you keep obfuscating the real issue. As for Reverend Shipman statement, I answered it in my previous post. Your lack of reading comprehension is not something I’m overly concerned about. You also don’t mention how your claim that no Jew opposes it flies in the face of the FACT that you posted a link from Haaretz (Israeli newspaper) about it and I posted a link from Jerusalem Post (Israeli newspaper) calling for his dismissal. So you once again ignored reality when it interfered with your view.
            You’re right. You invented the Golden Rule. You didn’t crib it from anyone. But at least it is nice that we both agree that you are too much of a coward to do anything other than spew bile behind a computer screen. Baby steps.

          • Dan Greene

            >> “As for Reverend Shipman statement, I answered it in my previous post.

            Well, not really. The closest you have come to addressing the subject was this:

            “Bruce Shipman was forced out because blaming Jews for causing anti-Semitism because of their goddamned Jewishness is not something that is accepted in civilized society.” You also subsequently said this: “when somebody espouses anti-Semitic views, they get punished for it.”

            So, you tossed out the usual “anti-semitism” smokescreen without demonstrating that Shipman had said anything untoward at all. And what you particularly failed to do was actually to identify specifically what it was that Shipman said in his letter to the NYT that you think justifies his summary dismissal. Here, I’ll post it again to refresh you memory:

            “Deborah E. Lipstadt makes far too little of the relationship between Israel’s policies in the West Bank and Gaza and growing anti-Semitism in Europe and beyond. The trend to which she alludes parallels the carnage in Gaza over the last five years, not to mention the perpetually stalled peace talks and the continuing occupation of the West Bank. As hope for a two-state solution fades and Palestinian casualties continue to mount, the best antidote to anti-Semitism would be for Israel’s patrons abroad to press the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for final-status resolution to the Palestinian question.”

            Not only is there absolutely nothing in this passage that could rationally be used as a justification for firing Reverend Shipman, but I don’t even see anything factually wrong with it. His prescription is debatable, like any prescription, but there is nothing inherently wrong or terribly radical about his expressed view. I think it needs no correction whatsoever.

            But you evidently feel differently. You, JR, claim the right suppress the free speech of a Christian clergyman who offers a mild critique of Israeli policy and eject him from Yale. So, now it’s time for you to justify your support for Shipman’s dismissal with specifics, especially given that you support Ben-Dahan’s remaining in office despite his saying that “A Jew always has a much higher soul than a gentile, even if he is a homosexual.”

            Stop hiding behind your Judeosupremacist mantras and provide some justification, if you can, for what would appear to the reasonable man as the rank scheming of a hypocrite in the synagogue.

            >> “You also don’t mention how your claim that no Jew opposes it…”

            I’m sorry, but could you provide the specific and full quote of whatever it was that you’re talking about so I’ll be able to respond.

            JR’s “Golden Rule”: “Do unto me as I demand and I will do unto you as I see fit.”

          • JR

            You are repeating yourself too much. I already answered all your points. Just because you don’t like/understand the answers doesn’t obligate me to repeat them and/or give you the answers you like/understand. For some reason you assume your deficiencies in processing written words are my problem. Strangely enough, I don’t feel like it is my problem at all. And still no answer to MY question.

            1) What have you done to oppose the policy you find so odious? Who in the position of authority have you contacted?

            2) Since you haven’t actually done anything other than pretend that you are winning an argument with me (some commenters here have disagreed with that notion) ow do you justify the cowardice you exhibit hiding behind the computer screen?

            3) Why do you lack the courage of your own conviction?

            But since it is almost Shabbos, I will copy and paste my answer to your Shipman inquiry. I know you won’t get it, but never let it be said that I don’t know how to copy and paste.
            **I could give a fudge about Reverend Shipman. He said something that got him fired. Happens all the time. If I were to say that Christians being beheaded in the Middle East deserve what they got because of the actions of Christians in, let’s say, Italy, I would expect to get fired as well. **

            Dan Greene’s “Golden Rule”: ” I will just make up things I think you think and argue against that. Reality is just too hard for me. And scary. And I’m way too much of a coward to do anything about it.”

          • Dan Greene

            >> “How do you justify the cowardice you exhibit hiding behind the computer screen?”

            Says the other guy behind a computer screen! You’re a laugh riot, JR!

            But now, back to serious business. I don’t think it’s unreasonable, JR, for me to request that you tell us why you think a racist Jewish rabbi serving in an Israeli government that we subsidize should stay in his job, while at the same time you support with delight and ferocity, the destruction of a Christian minister whose only sin was to offer a few humble suggestions for peace in the Middle East in the NYT.

            Here’s what you just claimed to be your “answer”:

            “**I could give a fudge about Reverend Shipman. He said something that got him fired. Happens all the time. If I were to say that Christians being beheaded in the Middle East deserve what they got because of the actions of Christians in, let’s say, Italy, I would expect to get fired as well. **”

            Surely, JR, you can see how utterly inadequate that “answer” is. The dishonesty of your absurd analogy is so patent that I’m only surprised that you weren’t too embarrassed to trot it out for us to shake our heads at.

            So I will ask the question again: What did Reverend Shipman say SPECIFICALLY that you think justifies his firing? And even more important, how do you reconcile your support for the goy-hating Ben-Dahan with your resentful loathing of Shipman? Without some valid explanation, which you simply refuse to provide, what is one left to conclude but that you are a shyster of the most unappetizing variety?

            But I have to admit that you really do have a knack for the Orwellian, JR. Do you remember this?– “Four legs good, two legs bad.”

            Well, here’s your version: “Racist Jewish clergyman: HIRE him! Humble Christian clergyman: FIRE him!”

            Life is good on JR’s Animal Farm–if you’re a Jew!

            Now off you go, JR, because somewhere, a synagogue is missing its hypocrite.

            JR’s “Golden Rule”: “Do unto me as I demand and I will do unto you as I see fit.”

          • JR

            You are the one who is demanding a change in official US Government policy. Yet you have done nothing to advance that change. My question was who have you contacted in the US government to enact that change? Once again, you don’t answer. Pretty cowardly, huh?

            I already answered to you why I think Shipman was fired. If my answer doesn’t satisfy you, that is not my problem. But then again, I did not fire him. Yale did. Feel free to contact Yale University though. Tell them all about the homosexual souls. I’m sure they would love to hear from you.

            And still no answer as to why two different Jewish newspapers called for the firing of Ben-Dahan if as you claim, all organized Jewry is so incredibly racist. Tsk, tsk, tsk, Dan Greene, one must almost suspect that you can’t deal with the cognitive dissonance.

            As for the rest of your post, you claim things that I think that I don’t think. So I don’t how to answer that. But then I remembered the *entrance music*

            Dan Greene’s “Golden Rule”: ” I will just make up things I think you think and argue against that. Reality is just too hard for me. And scary. And I’m way too much of a coward to do anything about it.”

            Now leave this forum in peace and write some letters to your Senator explaining how one guy saying something about homosexual souls is reason to change US policy. I’m sure they are dying to hear from you.

          • Dan Greene

            >> “Now leave this forum in peace”

            Sorry, JR, no can do!

            And besides, when we started this exchange, you said you were having so much fun. In fact, you said it in practically all of your early posts in this string. Things not so much fun for you at this point? Well, that’s what happens when you showcase your Judeosupremacist hypocrisies for all the world to see. I’m sorry for ya, JR!

            >> “I already answered to you why I think Shipman was fired.”

            No, you have continued to evade that question. And I invite anybody who happens to chance upon this little exchange to go back and see for himself just how maladroitly JR has undertaken those transparent evasions. It’s not a sight for the faint of heart, I can tell you. Bottom line for JR on Dahan and Shipman:

            “Racist Jewish clergyman: HIRE him! Humble Christian clergyman: FIRE him!”

            >> “And still no answer as to why two different Jewish newspapers…so incredibly racist.”

            Now come on, JR, work with me here. You asked me that question, or something like it, several posts ago and I replied and told you to provide me with a specific and full quote of what you think I said so I can understand what you are talking about. So where’s the quote? See, knowing you and your sneaky ways, JR, I wouldn’t put it past you to fabricate something I supposedly said. I’m all too familiar with your record of comment manipulation. We’ve had to talk about that before, haven’t we?

            Now, by contrast, see how I do things? I use carefully chosen quotes and identify them, so it’s clear what I am talking about. You like to make vague, weakly sourced, and usually spurious claims. Ole Dan Greene likes to keep things above board. JR, on the other hand, is a bit of a gonoph–aren’t you, JR?

            JR’s “Golden Rule”: “Do unto me as I demand and I will do unto you as I see fit.”

          • JR

            At this point I’m just bored. You are making things up that you think I think and then you argue against that straw man. But that’s as per Dan Greene’s Golden rule which will be reproduced below. I answered your question regarding Shipman specifically. You for some reason equate not liking my answer to me not answering. But that’s what cowards do, don’t they Dan Greene? They ignore things that interfere with their own version of reality. I also asked you if you asked Yale (the ones who fired Shipman) whether or not they heard about homosexual souls and how it relates to the firing. Have you gotten to that yet?
            And I was just making fun of you trying to tell me to go away. Not surprised you didn’t get the joke.
            You claimed somewhere that all organized Jewry was behind Ben-Dahan. When I presented evidence to the contrary, you acted like a coward that you are and started to pretend you never said anything of that nature. I’m not going to go back and check. So in the interest of saving us time, do you think organized Jewry (your term not mine) is united behind Ben-Dahan? Very simple question. But I’m sure you won’t answer it. As per *entrance music*

            Dan Greene’s “Golden Rule”: ” I will just make up things I think you think and argue against that. Reality is just too hard for me. And scary. And I’m way too much of a coward to do anything about it.”

          • Dan Greene

            >> “At this point I’m just bored.”

            Yes, it is growing a bit tedious. Let’s end it.

          • Dan Greene

            Trying to change your post again after the fact, JR? All the stuff after “Dan Greene’s Golden Rule” is added. Why didn’t you just reply with a new post instead of trying to stick it in after I had replied?

            If you had added it it before the Dan Greene’s Golden Rule, you might have gotten away with it.

            Don’t these cheap tricks embarrass you at all?

            JR’s “Golden Rule”: “Do unto me as I demand and I will do unto you as I see fit.”

          • JR

            You didn’t bother scrolling down is somehow my fault? That’s an interesting tactic you got there. But let’s look at what you are referring to. Oh my goodness, it is a quote from Dan Greene!!! Where he says that the issue is Jewish unwillingness to hold confront prejudice. You know, the quote Dan Greene claimed never existed. OUCH!!!!

            So now we have Dan Greene claiming something that is disproven by two sources. Haaretz (which Dan Greene himself used as a source) and Jerusalem Post. So in essence his entire argument has been disproven. Man, that must really hurt, huh? Reality just rudely spanked you. You were trying so hard to make a point and it’s just not factually right. Talk about being hoisted on your own petard. It only took us 100+ comments to get to this point, but still…

            And you still haven’t answered a question of what you are doing to raise awareness among the people who hold power about the nefarious Jewish Lobby. Does your cowardly behavior know no limits? I guess not. Like all petty anti-Semites, you can only spew bile when you feel you are safe. Like a cockroach, you scurry away from the sunlight of direct questioning. Watching your squirm is back to being funny.

            Dan Greene’s “Golden Rule”: ” I will just make up things I think you think and argue against that. Reality is just too hard for me. And scary. And I’m way too much of a coward to do anything about it.”

          • Dan Greene

            >> “You didn’t bother scrolling down is somehow my fault?”

            No, JR, we both know that you sneaked in additions after I had made a reply just like you did in the other string. You were clearly hoping to stick in what you felt was a “gotcha” (though it’s not much of one) without alerting me to the fact. If you had put in a new comment, it would have shown up in my comment queue, so you wanted the last word without actually letting me know that you had added something. You really have no respect for honesty at all, do you?

            I can tell from the tone of this last comment that you are really seething with rage. Ole Dan Greene has been doing some serious damage to poor vulnerable JR, and now he is just quivering with inchoate anger, isn’t that right? You probably went back over the string and realized just how bad it all looked for you. And the more you read, the angrier you got. I can picture it all now. You were hoping you stick in that imagined “gotcha” and then, somehow, anyone who might chance to stop by to look at the string would imagine you had retrieved victory from the jaws of defeat. That’s what has been going through your mind, isn’t it? I offered you a end to it, because you said you were “bored,” but you took that as an opportunity for a little of your trademark conniving, didn’t you? Boy, you are a real piece of work.

            But as far as victory goes, sorry, JR–not gonna happen. And now I bet you’re doubly enraged because I’ve now caught you doing this sort of thing for a SECOND time. It does show just how psychologically frail you are underneath the bluster.

            But OK, back to business. You finally provided me with the quote that I have asked for TWICE. So let’s look at it:

            >> (my quote) “NOT the issue. You are being typically evasive. The issue is total Jewish unwillingness–here and in Israel–to hold anti-goy Jews accountable in ANY way.”

            So your point is there is some amount of support in Israel for dealing with Ben-Dahan and that “total” is not correct? OK, there is some support. But let’s be clear: It is entirely inadequate. Was organized Jewry in the US satisfied with “some” criticism of Reverend Shipman? No, they–and you–were baying for his blood! Either Israelis get rid of this goy-hating Deputy Defense Minister who should never have been in the job or they don’t. And there is no indication that they are going to. Shipman was gone from Yale in a matter of days, after he made his moderate remarks about peace in the Middle East, but we are supposed to be satisfied with some half-hearted opposition to Ben-Dayan? That’s just not gonna work, JR.

            The larger issue, JR, is still your refusal to tell us why you think a racist Jewish rabbi serving in an Israeli government that we subsidize should stay in his job, while at the same time you provide unqualified and enthusiastic support for the destruction of a Christian minister whose only sin was to offer a few reasonable suggestions for peace in the Middle East. At the end of the day, your repulsive and unacceptable position on Ben-Dahan and Shipman is:

            “Racist Jewish clergyman: HIRE him! Humble Christian clergyman: FIRE him!”

            And until you make amends by fixing your Judeosupremacist attitude, I’m going to have to continue applying the stick. That’s just the bottom line. JR.

            Finally, I must say once again, that your bizarrely dishonest personal behavior, which seems to be worsening, really makes me wonder about you. Is TAI so important to you that you feel the need to slink in and make surreptitious wholesale changes to your comments, hoping that I won’t notice, instead of simply making a new comment? And all because you think it will give you a “win?” This is what self-obsession does to you, JR. You need to get it together.

            JR’s “Golden Rule”: “Do unto me as I demand and I will do unto you as I see fit.”

          • JR

            Hahahahaha!!!!!! Oh man, you know I just love it. You forgot to scroll down and all of a sudden, after all this time, we get to see Dan Greene the Victim. Oh, look at poor Dan Greene, suffering from the perfidy of that wicked JR, see our hero fight against this terrible enemy, sympathize with the noble Dan Greene. That’s sooooo lame. Playing the victim card, my goodness. I guess constantly lying wore down the Dan Greene of yore, the one screaming “Israel Sieg Heil!!!”. Like all Internet anti-Semites, your eventual bravado has been replaced with whimpering. I’ve never been your victim, Dan Greene. And I never will be.
            So let’s see what the facts are. For months you’ve been harping about someone saying something about homosexual souls. You built your entire world view around the fact, repeated over and over again on this forum. For months. About an event that happened over a year ago. You claimed that no Jews anywhere, either inside or outside of Israel, condemned Ben-Dahan. Turns out, you provided a link to Haaretz (Israeli NY Times) and I provided a link to Jerusalem Post (Israeli WSJ) calling for Ben-Dahan’s resignation. Turns out there were Jews everywhere calling what he said unacceptable and calling for his resignation. The event garnered zero international attention. Do you know why? Because those who are not blinded with irrational Jew hatred, like you, didn’t really care. I mean, it didn’t get any play in the Arab world or Iran. The government of the US couldn’t be paid to care less. There are actual real issues in the ME, aside from one person saying something that turns out to have offended Dan Greene so deeply. When you told me what he said, I said I disagreed with it. So everybody is happy except you. You DEMAND to know how dare anyone not care about this one thing as much as you do. How dare did the world move on from this one thing that is of so much importance to you? How come reality doesn’t look like you want it to?
            And then…. an answer. Because of the Jewish Lobby. Something you can never actually disprove. That way, you can always reconcile your reality with everyone else’s reality. You are being silenced, a victim of the Jew. Again, you are a victim here!!!!! You poor thing. This is exactly what WRM means when he says an anti-Semite lives in his own reality, making real-life bad life decisions based on perceiving reality in a way that is not true. There is no Jewish Lobby. You are not being silenced. It’s just that your views are not that important. Your ranting about Ben-Dahan have not changed policy one iota. But more and more people are commenting just how stupid you sound sometimes. I don’t care about winning or losing this in a way that you interpret. I like having you around. I like the way you misrepresent facts, engage in sophistry. How you mistake insulting everyone you meet for being on the offensive, and therefore pretending that you are winning. I like all of that. You do more to discredit the case for anti-Semitism that I ever could.
            So now that we know all there is about Ben-Dahan and who reacted how when and why, what’s next, eternal victim of the Jewish Lobby Dan Greene? Shipman? Sure, we can do it. Picking this particular time in history to debate the Jewish persecution of Christians seems a bit shortsighted to me (real talk right there), but hey, it’s journey, not the destination, amiright?

          • Dan Greene

            >> “You forgot to scroll down.”

            Sorry, JR, I didn’t just fall off the turnip truck, and this is the SECOND time you have done this. When I replied to your post, there was nothing after “Dan Greene’s Golden Rule,” which you always put at the end of your more recent posts.

            In fact, you had specifically said, “I’m not going to go back and check [for my quote that you were so desperate to find.]

            Then, after I had replied and suggested, because you said you were “bored,” that we end it, you went and added new material and, instead of putting it in a new comment that would have alerted me, you tried to change the existing post and all because you were desperate for what??

            You should have inserted it before “Dan Greene’s Golden Rule.” I might not have noticed that.

            And now you present us with this bizarre one-paragraph wall of words?

            You are melting down before our eyes.

            JR’s “Golden Rule”: “Do unto me as I demand and I will do unto you as I see fit.”

          • JR

            Now you are down to ad hominem attacks. And at the end, nobody cares about Ben-Dahan. The policy won’t change. You are still the only person in the world who cares. And you can’t reconcile the fact that everybody’s else reality doesn’t correspond to yours.

          • Dan Greene

            So, you went back in and added paragraph breaks to your rant above after I had described it as a “bizarre one-paragraph wall of words” in my last post. At least it’s half-way readable now. But it’s also more evidence of your bizarre and dishonest penchant for making changes to your posts that I have already replied to. At least these don’t appear to be substantive changes.

          • JR

            Now you are just making things up. But i expected that since talking about your claims being factually disproven is just too much. Pretty weak sauce.
            I also did a little thought experiment. You accused me of creating a paragraph of words. The post I responded to has 735 words, as opposed to what I wrote, 607 words (+/-2). So if 607 words is a sign of breakdown, what’s 735 that you wrote? An opus? A pearl of wisdom? You like to present your opinions as facts, but you lose even by the measure you yourself invented. How pathetic.
            So where does that leave us?
            Fact: Your entire claim that nobody in Israel opposed what Ben-Dahan said has been disproven. I’ve noticed you studiously avoided addressing that.
            Fact: Other than you, nobody cares about this incident. Even the Iranians and Hamas propaganda divisions didn’t bother with it.
            Fact: US policy of support of Israel did not change because of this incident. Nor will it change because of this incident. You’ve been ranting and raving for months. Nothing changed. The world passed you by. I know that makes you angry.
            Fact: Other people have noticed your hypocrisy and your inability to deal with facts. I can say “that troll Dan Greene” and immediately a dozen faceless, nameless avatars on this message board will know exactly everything you say on a certain topic. Your predictability has become a joke with more and more people in on it.
            What are you gonna do about any of this? Are you still going to talk about changing the US policy because of Ben-Dahan? Or are you finally going to admit that it won’t change, no matter how much you lie on Internet forums.
            And now I am off to the beach with my kids. I hope this confirmation that US aid to Israel is about to increase finds you well.
            http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4662574,00.html

          • Dan Greene

            >> “Now you are just making things up.”

            What am I making up?

            You did go back into comments in this and another string and change them after I had replied to them, evidently because you thought it would gain you some polemical advantage.

            Do you deny it again?

            You are a congenital liar, JR.

          • JR

            Hahaha!!! You are back to being funny. Although I got to say, I enjoyed debating “Israel Sieg Hiel” Dan Greene way more than this pathetic ad hominem attacking Dan Greene kvetching about what, paragraph breaks? I always knew reality would break you, but jeez man, try to have some self-respect. And it’s not my fault you stopped reading my post. Learn to own your mistakes.
            But how about Ben-Dahan, eh? Going to make another false claim about lack of condemnation? Come on, you have one more in you. Rally the troops. What was that quote again? Something about homosexual souls. I’m sure it will be way more effective in your stated goal of changing US policy towards aid to Israel than all the other ones.
            Speaking of which, it looks like your advocacy worked. In the next few years US aid to Israel is going to increase. By about 2 million bucks. A day. In addition to the 3 billion. And the best part is, it takes form in buying American military hardware, thus employing US workers. You ARE an agent of change.
            Or how about Shipman getting fired? You can start a letter writing campaign to the Trustees of Yale University. I bet they would love to hear from you.
            Shabbat Shalom to you Dan Greene. Never change. Your predictability in this ever-changing world is something to behold.

          • Dan Greene

            OK, JR, so here is a summary of your noxious, implicitly anti-goyist views. Let’s recall how you have responded to the statements of Israeli Deputy Defense Minister Ben-Dahan and Reverend Bruce Shipman formerly Episcopal Chaplain of Yale:

            1. Ben-DAHAN: “A Jew always has a much higher soul than a gentile, even if he is a homosexual,”

            2. JR: “I don’t think Rabbi Ben-Dahan should be fired”

            3. SHIPMAN: “Deborah E. Lipstadt makes far too little of the relationship between Israel’s policies in the West Bank and Gaza and growing anti-Semitism in Europe and beyond. The trend to which she alludes parallels the carnage in Gaza over the last five years, not to mention the perpetually stalled peace talks and the continuing occupation of the West Bank. As hope for a two-state solution fades and Palestinian casualties continue to mount, the best antidote to anti-Semitism would be for Israel’s patrons abroad to press the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for final-status resolution to the Palestinian question.”

            4. JR: “Bruce Shipman was forced out because blaming Jews for causing anti-Semitism because of their goddamned Jewishness is not something that is accepted in civilized society…when somebody espouses anti-Semitic views, they get punished for it.”

            BOTTOM LINE for you, JR, is that it’s quite permissible for racist Jews to label all non-Jews as inferior. In fact, you approve of their promotion to and retention in senior positions in the Israeli government that non-Jewish Americans fund. In contrast, it’s utterly impermissible for a non-Jew to criticize Israel or, presumably, anything else that offends you, and you fully support Shipman’s destruction. Your idea of civilized society doesn’t sound very good for non-Jews, JR.

            Or, to summarize your views in Orwellian terms:

            “Racist Jewish clergyman: HIRE him! Humble Christian clergyman: FIRE him!”

            ANSWER THE QUESTION: So I will pose this question to you again: What did Reverend Shipman say SPECIFICALLY that you think justifies his firing? And even more important, how do you reconcile your support for the goy-hating Ben-Dahan with your resentful loathing of Shipman? Without some valid explanation, which you simply refuse to provide, you condemn yourself as a Judeosupremacist. Your words convict you.

            ETHICAL ISSUES: Oh, and JR, why did you feel the need to SURREPTITIOUSLY CHANGE THE CONTENT OF COMMENTS of yours to which I had already replied, specifically the “At this point I’m just bored…” post in this string and the “So the Article That Doesn’t Mention…” post in the “Weak US Policy Makes Life Harder for Middle East Liberals” comment string?

            You are both personally and intellectually dishonest, JR.

            JR’s “Golden Rule”: “Do unto me as I demand and I will do unto you as I see fit.”

          • JR

            Yeah!!!! That’s the spirit!!!!!! I knew you had it in you, you old fella you!!!!
            I’m too lazy to respond to your nonsense right now but I will at some point. Like I told you last time, the ocean + kids combo really mellows me out. I also find you need to demonize your opponent to be freakin’ awesome. I’m sure you believe you are a victim of this undetectable and unknowable editing conspiracy which apparently involves paragraph breaks because reasons, where your word against mine seems to be an evidence of your victory, not your defeat. That’s what I like about the delusional Dan Greene!!!
            The whole Shipman thing is actually great so I think I’ll take it at some point when you post an anti-Semitic post we can discuss it there. It’d be a hoot, I look forward to it.

          • Dan Greene

            Don’t whine, JR.

            Save you energy for answering the charges against you.

            JR’s “Golden Rule”: “Do unto me as I demand and I will do unto you as I see fit.”

          • JR

            On the beach now. Later Dan Greene, later. You must learn that you can’t just with to happen and then magically have them happen.
            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=urBbHrJnSmE

          • JR

            Also some words are misspelled probably. I hope that amuses you for a while. Never let it be said that I don’t care about your wellbeing.

          • Dan Greene

            You really are the slimiest little weasel around, aren’t you, JR?

            I see you have been engaging in more attempts to FALSIFY THE RECORD OF YOUR STATEMENTS.

            Here’s an existing quote of yours from above in the string, WHICH YOU HAVE CHANGED SINCE I REPLIED, as it NOW stands:

            “Yes, you will continue to ignore reality in favor of your own reality. And you are arguing counterfactual arguments. You are pretending to know what would occur in an alternative universe. Which is impossible to argue with since that universe does not, in fact, exist.
            But I am glad you at least admitted that you are a coward that is afraid to get up from behind his computer and do ANYTHING against what he considers to be wrong. It is very important that you took this first step. Why are you so afraid to do anything than post anonymous comments?
            And if somebody commits petty vandalism or petty crimes like spitting on somebody, I think that’s the matter for local police to take care of. Should I condemn every time any Jew does something you find disagreeable? No, I don’t think so.”

            Here is the beginning of my response to the original version of it:

            “>>”Should I condemn every time any Jew does something you find disagreeable? No, I don’t think so.”

            Oh, I see, you are quite willing to condemn…”

            KEY POINT #1: Notice that the section I quoted is NO LONGER IN THE POST as it now stands??!!

            KEY POINT #2: And I see that you removed this section which I just quoted (about 24 hours ago) in my last long post challenging you to explain the discrepancy between this view and your condemnation of Shipman:

            “I don’t think Rabbi Ben-Dahan should be fired”

            Now that passage is gone. It was embarrassing to be on record as saying that Ben-Dahan should not be fired wasn’t it? So you just got rid of the evidence.

            Do you imagine that you have the right to falsify the historical record of our debate??

            You are beneath contempt, JR.

            JR’s “Golden Rule”: “Do unto me as I demand and I will do unto you as I see fit.”

          • JR

            I have no idea what you’re talking about nor do I really care. We’ll talk about shipman and Ben-Dahan later. Although your pathetic whining about God knows what is great. You copy and paste what I wrote, change it and then accuse me of something or other. You realize how stupid that sounds right? Nah, you probably don’t.
            But great use of all caps. Really persuasive.

          • Dan Greene

            >> “We’ll talk about shipman and Ben-Dahan later.”

            Fine–any time–as long as you not going to attempt to claim that you did not say “I don’t think Rabbi Ben-Dahan should be fired”

            As for the other quote, “Should I condemn…” yes, I see that it was not, in fact, deleted, and on that, I stand corrected (though NOT on the already documented instances of your going back in and changing your posts.)

            JR’s “Golden Rule”: “Do unto me as I demand and I will do unto you as I see fit.”

          • JR

            Ok, well, I’m glad to know that reality finally was able to penetrate the thick fog that completely clouds your perceptions of how this world actually works. I don’t expect an apology to your ad hominem attacks, because let’s face it, Dan Greene’s admitting he is delusional is a better first step than I could have possibly anticipated. Today’s Gold Star of David recipient, Dan Greene!!!!
            And as for JR’s Golden Rule, I’m a bit confused and I’m hoping you can provide me with some clarity, Dan Greene. What have I ever demanded? I don’t recall demanding anything from you. You are the one LEVYING charges, DEMANDING explanations, referring to some imaginary COURT which I can assume exists in your mind exclusively. You are the one who HAS THE RIGHT TO KNOW why reality doesn’t bend to his wishes. i’m a-OK with what’s going on. I’m most certainly not demanding anything for me, or demanding you personally do anything either. I just make fun of you spitting bile and making ridiculous claims of persecution over anonymous Internet message boards.

          • Dan Greene

            Yeah, that’s all well and good, but let’s not forget that you do actually have a record of this behavior.

            To refresh your memory, below is your comment from the linked article string in its “final form,” followed by my complaint, and then my earlier response to the original version of your post which includes material subsequently changed or deleted after I had replied:

            http://www.the-american-interest.com/2015/06/08/weak-us-policy-makes-life-harder-for-middle-east-liberals/

            JR (Altered Comment): “So the article that doesn’t mention things you care about is actually about things that you care about? Oh man, this some funny sh!t, I gotta say. I know that making fun of somebody who is delusional is not nice, but I can’t help myself. And as for homosexual souls, I just find you spewing bile about it to be hilarious. I just do it to amuse myself. Anyway, I’m busy today but keep on imagining things and constructing elaborate alternative realities in your head. I find your indignation at the fact that nobody else takes your imaginary realities seriously to be ADUUUUH-rable.”

            DG: “Well, editing a comment after the fact is one thing, but don’t you think it’s a bit dishonest to replace your comment with wholly new content and pretend that you never did so? There’s that desperation again, JR.I’m glad I quoted from this comment (see below) before you made the wholesale changes.”

            DG: “Your first paragraph is a meaningless jumble of words. What are you actually trying to say?

            >>”As for homosexual souls, I just find it hilarious that you think that matters to anyone but yourself.”

            It obviously matters to you, since you are the one who brought it up.

            >> “Too bad about Edrogan, eh?”

            Nope. Too bad FOR Erdogan perhaps. Turkish democracy seems to be working moderately well. Will be interesting to see if the election results have any implications for Turkish support for the overthrow of the Syrian government.”

            ********

            We can discuss the meaning of JR’s Golden Rule when we resume the Shipman-Dahan discussion. They go together.

            JR’s “Golden Rule”: “Do unto me as I demand and I will do unto you as I see fit.”

          • JR

            Well, at least you are off your bizarre obsession that I keep on changing something, inserting paragraph break because Dan Greene’s paranoid reasons and obsessions… I could never quiet figure out what the hell you were babbling about, but I thought (correctly as it turned out) that it was largely irrelevant.
            Still no apology from you for baseless insults you hurled my way. But getting mad at you for that is like getting mad at the incontinent puppy for pooping all over the rug. That just Dan Greene letting his Jew-hatred blind him to reality. You just can’t be blamed for something you can’t control. We’re are going to work on that together.
            An as for the essay above, I already apologized numerous times. I didn’t fully account for how deeply delusional you are. I made a mistake. I will not make mistake like that again. See, I make mistakes. I never hide from my mistakes. I admit when I’m wrong and try to learn from my mistakes. When we discuss as to why your passionate hosannas about Ben-Dahan have not had any success whatsoever at… well, anything, really, we can see what lessons can be drawn.
            All in all, we are making good progress here Dan Greene. With your help I will be performing a mitzvah of Tikkun Olam, healing of the world. Makes me tear up it does!!!!

          • Dan Greene

            Just the truth, JR. It’s in black and white right above your comment–quotes from one of your finagled comments in my response before you removed them–for whatever reason. It’s a sad statement, JR, a very sad statement. You certainly gained minimal polemical advantage from your attempts at three card monte. And apologies? Your imagined “apologies” were ludicrous, “you failed to scroll down–it’s all a delusion” non-apologies–just like this one. Please! “You failed to scroll down”–That’s a classic! I’ve never had to concern myself with this sort of thing before, but then you’re unique in quite a few ways.

            >> “Insults”

            Yeah–OK, Mr “You’re a coward.” As I’ve replied to you before when you start to whine:

            Pot. Kettle. Black.

            And here is the real issue for you whenever you are ready:

            1. Ben-DAHAN: “A Jew always has a much higher soul than a gentile, even if he is a homosexual,”

            2. JR: “I don’t think Rabbi Ben-Dahan should be fired”

            3. SHIPMAN: “Deborah E. Lipstadt makes far too little of the relationship between Israel’s policies in the West Bank and Gaza and growing anti-Semitism in Europe and beyond. The trend to which she alludes parallels the carnage in Gaza over the last five years, not to mention the perpetually stalled peace talks and the continuing occupation of the West Bank. As hope for a two-state solution fades and Palestinian casualties continue to mount, the best antidote to anti-Semitism would be for Israel’s patrons abroad to press the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for final-status resolution to the Palestinian question.”

            4. JR: “Bruce Shipman was forced out because blaming Jews for causing anti-Semitism because of their goddamned Jewishness is not something that is accepted in civilized society…when somebody espouses anti-Semitic views, they get punished for it.”

            JR’s “Golden Rule”: “Do unto me as I demand and I will do unto you as I see fit.”

          • JR

            Oh I’m really sorry. It appears that I gave you an impression that when I told you that you failed to scroll down I was apologizing. I most certainly was not. I was pointing out where your mistake occurred. I was not angry that you made a mistake, BTW. We all make them, we are all humans.
            Like when you called me a lying weasel for something you later admitted I didn’t do. I call you a coward not for some imaginary offense, but for your failure to answer one simple question: Have you contacted anyone in the official capacity, working for either local, state or federal governments, regarding your views on what the US policy towards Israel should be and based on what you made that determination? Well, have you contacted anyone or not? I look forward to you not answering it. Again.
            Seems a bit strange that someone with your passionate pursuit of the Truth would resort to such blatant avoidance.

          • Dan Greene

            Whether it was a non-apology or simply duplicitous nonsense used as a smoke screen to mask your essential dishonesty. It’s all the same.

            It’s your dishonesty and obsessive need to surreptitiously change your comments after the fact that is documented right above. Why did you do it? I mean, taking out the reference to Erdogan in your original comment gained you what? It’s just obsessive, penny-ante dishonesty.

            >> “Cowardice”

            You have repeatedly evaded every attempt to get you to say what SPECIFICALLY Bruce Shipman said that justified his dismissal. Evasiveness=Cowardice.

            Pot. Kettle. Black.

            And your hypocrisy in excusing Jewish racism while advocating the firing of anyone who thinks free-speech rights include that right to criticize Israeli policy is documented, once again, right here:

            1. Ben-DAHAN: “A Jew always has a much higher soul than a gentile, even if he is a homosexual,”

            2. JR: “I don’t think Rabbi Ben-Dahan should be fired”

            3. SHIPMAN: “Deborah E. Lipstadt makes far too little of the relationship between Israel’s policies in the West Bank and Gaza and growing anti-Semitism in Europe and beyond. The trend to which she alludes parallels the carnage in Gaza over the last five years, not to mention the perpetually stalled peace talks and the continuing occupation of the West Bank. As hope for a two-state solution fades and Palestinian casualties continue to mount, the best antidote to anti-Semitism would be for Israel’s patrons abroad to press the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for final-status resolution to the Palestinian question.”

            4. JR: “Bruce Shipman was forced out because blaming Jews for causing anti-Semitism because of their goddamned Jewishness is not something that is accepted in civilized society…when somebody espouses anti-Semitic views, they get punished for it.”

            JR’s “Golden Rule”: “Do unto me as I demand and I will do unto you as I see fit.”

          • JR

            Well, at least we got you to admit that you imagined me hacking into a comments section for some reason. The fact that this whole thing began over you claiming that there is no evidence of Russian hacking is funny in a theater of the absurd kind of way.
            And stop copying and pasting all the time. I read what you wrote. We are already starting to talk about it. All in good time. But I’ll tell you what… Since I have been asking you about your contact with US government officials for a long time, after you tell me the answer, I will tell you all you want to know about Shipman.
            If changing US policy towards Israel is your goal, you contacting people who set that policy makes sense. If not, that what is your goal then?
            P.S. “Israel Sieg Hiel” Dan Greene would never have whined about somebody not answering his questions fast enough. You are like his whiny “they are hacking into the comments section” twin.

          • Dan Greene

            Nothing new here.

            For some reason, this string is constantly locking up as I try to post (unlike the other strings with fewer comments.) Don’t know whether it’s the number of comments or what.

            I’m migrating.

          • JR

            And just to make the record crystal clear, so that there are NO doubts about what I said, I, JR, hereby officially declare that “I do not think Rabbie Ben-Dahan should be fired. If he were I wouldn’t care much, since I don’t care much about this incident anyway. But do I think it is required for him to be fired? No. No I do not”. So it said, so it written.
            JR Golden Rule: Be as accommodating as possible to Dan Greene. He must be helped with a terrible burden of not seeing the world as it is. Tikkun Olam, heal the world.

          • Dan Greene

            Good.

          • Fred

            You
            know, JR, it’s a damn shame. Dan’s not a stupid guy (not as intelligent as he
            thinks he is, of course, but then nobody is as intelligent
            as Dan thinks he is). If he were sane, he’d probably have interesting, valuable
            things to say. Unfortunately, as it is, he is so delusional he thinks a country
            that largely bases its power on enmity with us would or could be our ally if we
            just threw the only civilized country in the Middle East under the bus. He’s so
            delusional that he demands “evidence” that a country that has sought nuclear
            weapons since the days of the Shah and floats on oil is pursuing nuclear
            weapons. He’s so delusional he thinks our policy toward Israel results from the
            machinations of a murky, shadowy “Israel Lobby” rather than from the fact that
            about sixty percent of the American public supports Israel. He’s even so
            delusional he constantly crows about how you’re “getting your ass handed to you”
            when you are obviously spanking him so hard he shouldn’t be able to sit for a
            week. Sad really.

          • Dan Greene

            Wow–you’re quite an expert on delusion, Fred.

            So when a senior Israeli official tells us we’re inferior and to just keep shoveling over the tax money, is that delusional on his part? I guess not as it seems to work for Israel. Are assertions of superiority and inferiority of souls based on race and ethnicity delusional?

          • JR

            Sad. Or funny. Really depends on your perspective, I think.
            I do appreciate the kind words though. Jewish people have survived for thousands of years with God’s Grace working through Yad Vashem, the Righteous Amongst the Nations. People tend to focus on “curse those who curse you”, but I think that “bless those who bless you” is a real key here. Although I have no way of proving it, I believe with every fiber of my being that the righteous are blessed for God never forgers his promise. And although it may take place in ways and timescales that we simply are not equipped to perceive, the Yad Vashem get their reward. In Jewish religion, we believe that righteous have a seat alongside God, even if they weren’t born Jewish. Because God is One, and His blessings and His justice are for all. I know I’m not saying what I really mean, but this is the best I can do. I hope this finds you well.

  • Fat_Man

    All too predictable. But another reason to Dissolve NATO. It can’t be our problem. We cannot be responsible for the defense of a country that does not want to defend itself.

    • JR

      I think dissolving NATO is premature. But making US support of our European allies contingent on them spending a certain % of their GDP on defense? Now that’s something I would support 100%.

      • Fat_Man

        The policy has been in place for years, it has never been complied with. It is time to acknowledge the failure.

        • JR

          True enough. I agree with you, we need shock therapy. I’m just not sure outright dissolution is the right move right now. But do I see NATO existing in its current form, with current levels of spending by EU members, in, let’s say 2050? no, I do not.

  • Boritz

    “The Germans may not be interested in rivalry with Russia, but Russia is interested in rivalry with them. ”

    Or to put it another way the Germans are the University of Texas and the Russians are Texas A&M.

    • Josephbleau

      As an Aggie I believe that you have the arrow of power drawn in the correct direction. To expand on your Soviet Russia jokes, in Germany you break law, in Russia law breaks you. Will Europe ever get tired of digging dollars out of the spittoon or will they sober up and put on a badge.

  • Loader2000

    Well, cyber warefare is probably one aspect of this conflict that both Germany and the US (if it wants) can engage in, hopefully without starting a shooting war, as long as nobody actually tries to disrupts anything (kind of like when US and Russian subs used to try and follow each other in the North Atlantic). Perhaps I’m being naive in thinking this won’t necessarily lead to bad things. However, if Germany really thinks Russia poses a cyber threat, it really needs to develop it own capabilities. Similarly, the US should be developing its own capabilities in this regard and I don’t thinking hacking the KGB, just to see if we could, not to actually disrupt anything, would be the worst idea. However, hacking into another governments systems, than leaving a trail leading back to you is a really bad idea since it just alerts them to weaknesses in their own security systems as well as causing diplomatic problems that can make a tense situation worse.

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