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Synagogue Massacre
Israel’s Hard Line to Walk
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  • qet

    (1) Everyone’s interest everywhere and at all times is to live in peace, with everyone. A statement about peace being in Israel’s interest therefore cannot be the major premise of any argument.
    (2) Grygiel and Mitchell argue on the right-hand side of TAI that what is required to deter Putin, to restore peace, is to inflict a proportionate injury. Wouldn’t their logic apply equally here?
    (3) You say that “seeking peace” requires Israeli forbearance. What about “attaining peace”? Oh, right. That hasn’t occurred in 50+ years of seeking. Is there one single person of sound mind (this excludes 99.99% of all US academics and 100% of all Europeans) who sincerely believes that “the Palestinians” have been engaged in “seeking peace”? WRM–do you sincerely believe this, that the so-called governments of the “Palestinians” have sincerely sought peace? It won’t do to point to certain individual persons here and there who want peace. I mean the leaders, elected or otherwise, the governments, the rulers, the responsible parties.
    (4) Is it really necessary to intellectualize the hacking to death of innocents with meat cleavers? That fact, and the equally factual fact of the Palestinians’ (I’m tired of typing the quotes; please consider all mentions of this fiction to be in quotes) jubilant reaction, are facts of far greater import than any dispassionate remote intellectual policy analysis would suggest. Remember Rwanda? Remember how Clinton wringed his hands and gnashed his teeth after he left office about how he should have done something? Well, when thousands and thousands of people pick up machetes and go about hacking their countrymen to death, there is nothing left that anyone CAN do. The Palestinians are running over innocents with their cars, and hacking them apart with meat cleavers. There is no policy that can address this.
    (5) I have watched this movie for 50 years running and nothing has changed. What was Einstein’s definition of insanity again?

  • wigwag

    “Though Hamas held celebrations in the streets after the murders, Mahmoud Abbas condemned the atrocity (if reluctantly).” (Walter Russell Mead)

    Mahmoud Abbas reminds me of John Kerry. Just as Kerry was for the first Iraq War before he was against it, Abbas was an advocate for this terrorist atrocity before he condemned it. Nor should we forget that in the aftermath of his failed peace parley, overcome with pique at Israel for depriving him of his Nobel Peace Prize, John Kerry practically begged the Palestinians to start an Intifada.

    In fact, it is no exaggeration to say that much of the terrorism occurring in Israel can be attributed directly to the foolishness and perfidy of Democratic Administrations in the United States and the members of the European Union. Without the unwise and overly solicitous behavior towards the Palestinians by Western elites overcome with guilt for imperial impulses which abated decades ago, the Israel-Palestinian dispute would have been solved already. The West has made a habit of inspiring unreasonable and unachievable aspirations in the Palestinians encouraging them to believe that they will get a far more generous settlement than they will ever achieve. Without those unreasonable expectations the Palestinians would have negotiated an end to hostilities long ago or the Israelis would have dealt the Palestinians a military defeat so thorough that a they would have achieved far more in a surrender agreement than they now have.

    Every time you see a dead Jew covered in blood after becoming the victim of Palestinian terrorism, the smart question to ask is “what did the United States and Europe do to abet that terrible crime?”

  • FriendlyGoat

    The land area of Israel would fit in about 3% of the land area of Texas. Nobody ever talks seriously about selling Israel to its neighbors and buying a different homeland not surrounded by hatred. But we should.

    • qet

      If the surrounding and nearby Arab countries–e.g., Jordan, Syria, Egypt–had at any time taken in and settled the Palestinian Arabs, given them citizenship and a future for their posterity as citizens of recognized, Arab, Muslim states, a future that included education, employment, peace, and not rockets stored in elementary schools and mosques, then that would have solved the problem. But of course they didn’t, having little or no regard for the suffering of these people and seeing them only as useful political tools and distractions. That is still the best solution. All of the Western nations and elites who constantly parade their sympathy for the Palestinians could instead pay those nations to assimilate the Palestinians into their own countries. But they, too, find the preservation of these poor people in perpetual political limbo to be too useful to their own political agendas.

      • FriendlyGoat

        You’re certainly right that the Islamic neighbors should have taken in the Palestinians decades ago. But they didn’t. So we’re left with #5 from your first post.

        • adk

          “This is a reason for proposing new thoughts, even if somewhat outrageous, like say, moving Israel.”
          You and Secretary Kerry should talk. I further suggest bringing in Qataris, Turks, even Iranians who surely will be fine with your idea. When all the details are worked out, you’ll reveal it to the Israelis. They will be grateful, no doubt, even if apprehensive at first (but that’s simply because they just don’t know what’s good for them and thus are in constant need for guidance from wise men like you and Kerry.).

          • FriendlyGoat

            It should be discussed with Israelis FIRST, leaving the impression to them that endless war is not something particularly enjoyable for either them or us. Like I told you, I’m not a buddy with Islam. So YOU suggested bringing in the Qataris, Turks and Iranians, not me.

          • adk

            “It…should be discussed with Israelis FIRST, leaving the impression to them that endless war is not something particularly enjoyable for either them or us.”
            Like I said, you (and Kerry) think Israelis are a little dense.

            ” I’m not a buddy with Islam” — Then you are merely a useful idiot for your proposal mirrors those of, eg, Hamas, Iran’s mullahs, etc. They opined many times that they don’t necessarily want to kill Israelis(read Jews), they just want Israel gone. But beyond that, to seriously propose transplanting a strong successful country with deep attachment to its land, founded on the Zionist idea, makes you an idiot without qualifiers.

          • FriendlyGoat

            Hey, I also discussed converting the Palestinians, or Israel killing the Palestinians, or Israel eventually being nuked by a state or non-state enemy. There are many scenarios to project. You seem to think everything there is okey-dokey for both the present and the future—–while most current events seem to indicate this is not the case.

            The Jewish nation and its supporters maybe should evaluate whether Zionism on a particular piece of land is worth the killing of both Jews and non-Jews on a wide scale. I mean, we can debate the so-called two-state solution right up to the moment of regional catastrophe, but why not ask if there are other reasonable avenues to pursue.

      • adk

        “If …Arab countries…had …settled the Palestinian Arabs,given them … a future that included education, employment, peace…”
        Just like they gave all those wonderful things to their own citizens, right? That’s why the Arab world is now such an example of peace and prosperity…

  • Fat_Man

    I was going to post a long comment about the cliched and warped thinking that goes into writing an essay that includes the phrase “cycle of violence”. but my sarcasm and my spirit failed me.

    • FriendlyGoat

      That’s progress.

  • Jacksonian_Libertarian

    For Peace to happen, both sides must want Peace. The Muslims have never wanted Peace, and decades of negotiating for peace have failed due to this simple fact.

  • Anthony

    The people of Israel also need to recognize one basic fact: any attempt to build a new temple where the Muslim holy sites now sit will start world war 3. In decades past, this wasn’t a big issue, but times have changed. This is a very dangerous situation.

    The Palestinians need to recognize that cold blooded murder is morally reprehensible and does not help their cause in the slightest.

    • FriendlyGoat

      Your first paragraph is why I keep suggesting a discussion of moving Israel—–crazy as it sounds. The Jewish people are mostly a sensible group. But two religions insisting on exclusive possession of a particular set of holy sites is NOT really sensible.

  • pschieber

    On what planet are you living? Israel is dealing with savagrs that some have called subhuman.

    • Tom

      Let’s not dehumanize people, alright? That tends to end in rivers of blood.

      • Fred

        Besides, there’s no need for any of us to dehumanize them. Their own behavior does that more effectively than we ever could.

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