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The Anti-American Visa
H-1B Visas Pave Way for Outsourcing
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  • Fat_Man

    I am shocked that TAI is beginning to understand how badly immigration policies have screwed American Workers. You formerly took the line that the US needed more H-1Bs.

  • FriendlyGoat

    Most working class conservatives naturally assume that Donald Trump’s wall is not to be circumvented by open doors for more and more imported employees from all over the world. They don’t realize that the “business-community” party they support via Donald is NOT with them on this. But, hey, whatever. Working-class conservatives have been woefully confused about every economic matter. Some of them even think that eliminating estate tax is somehow going to help THEM.

    • CapitalHawk

      OK FG, what is your solution? No change?

      • FriendlyGoat

        No, if we are to elect Mr. Trump to build a wall, I think we need to address the issue of guest workers FIRST. If he cannot guarantee that there will not only be no additional guest workers AND that the visas will be revoked on proof of situations like Toys or Us, above, then don’t elect him. Working-class people need to tell Mr. Trump that they are negotiating with HIM like he negotiates in business deals. No guarantees (IRON-CLAD GUARANTEES), no working-class votes.

        • Boritz

          IRON-CLAD GUARANTEES

          I like that idea. It has a nice ring to it like “lock box”.

          • FriendlyGoat

            The main problem with “lock box” is that we did not elect it and the candidate who was talking about it. Instead we elected income and estate tax cuts to undermine the combined federal budget for decades.

          • Boritz

            The main problem is no potential to actually implement. Why we didn’t elect it.

          • FriendlyGoat

            Not with Republicans—–who probably spent the Social Security and Medicare Trust Funds twice over with the foreign wars and high-end tax cut since 2001.

      • circleglider

        For once, Mr. Goat is right.

        As for “what is the solution?” Shut down the Internet? Ground all international airlines? Sink the global fleet of container ships? Repeal modernity?

        The Toy “R” Us story is simply the story of globalization and modernization. Any job that is performed on a computer and can be distilled entirely into an “intricate manual” can and will be performed by anyone anywhere, at the lowest possible cost. Physical walls cannot keep these jobs in America. Likewise, neither will they be taken by immigrants to America. These jobs are migrating to India, China, Vietnam, Indonesia, Bangladesh and, maybe soon, sub-Saharan Africa.

        The world economy is undergoing a revolution every bit as profound as the Industrial Revolution. Just as work once migrated from agriculture to assembly lines, it is now again migrating from full-time corporate bureaucracies to independent agencies.

        The only way anyone could stop this revolution would be by precipitating a global trade war and causing a subsequent worldwide depression. This, of course, would do nothing to improve the living standards of those most severely affected. But we’ve collectively made these sorts of self-immolating choices before, and we could very well do it again (cf. Donald Trump).

        • FriendlyGoat

          Well, the main self-immolation effect of electing Donald Trump would likely be more tax cuts at the high end—–since the wall and all the deportations are rather impractical when you get down to brass tacks.

          You are correct about the pressures to move white-collar jobs overseas where the work product of those jobs simply flies back to American companies over cables in real time (thanks to the speed of electronic signals). The big misunderstanding on the part of many voters is the notion that if you give companies and owners tax cuts that THEN they will somehow do less outsourcing. This, to me, never makes any sense BECAUSE the effect of tax cuts is that companies and owners are then permitted to merely keep MORE of the savings they can achieve from the outsourcing we say we want to prevent. Duh?

          • circleglider

            Wow, you really are animated by envy.

            Trump, Sanders, Perón, Chávez, what difference does it make? There’ll always be a market for ignorance and jealousy. Tocqueville’s America died well over a century ago.

          • FriendlyGoat

            I’m retired. My parents are dead. There is no basement. You’re just another smart-aleck.

            You COULD have said something on subject, except—-oops— you couldn’t. So off to the insults like most other mindless conservatives.

          • circleglider

            Millenials in their parent’s basements and boomers out of the workforce (typically on Social Security disability) are two sides of the same metaphorical coin. Both are unproductive and socially isolated. Both have far too much time on their hands (which they spend posting on social media), which leads to radical rumination.

            Populist forces never expect to suffer from their agitations. But history proves time and again that the the mob always comes you.

          • FriendlyGoat

            Some of us have earned our retirements and are free to express our thoughts as WE (not you) see fit. It’s that “free country” thing.

            This is a discussion forum, not “social media”, by the way.

      • Boritz

        I believe it’s Bernie Sanders, and working-class conservatives’ lack of support for him is a manifestation of that woeful confusion.

        • FriendlyGoat

          Yes, you’re right about my thinking on both points. I would prefer Sanders and Biden together, actually.

  • John Dowd

    The H1-B program should be abolished. Furthermore there should a immigration moratorium until every american who wants a job has a job except immigration lawyers and their allied immigration advocacy groups.

    • Ofer Imanuel

      So you want to block all these brainy Chinese, Indian and others coming with a STEM degree to work in the U.S (or come to study in the U.S and then look for a job). What do you think will happen?

      • John Dowd

        You are obviously not-up-to-speed on H1-B visas. A “brainy Chinese, Indian or whatever” is an indentured servant to the company that sponsors him. He legally cannot seek employment for higher salary at another American firm. This causes lower salaries and unemployment for American STEM workers. In fact 40% of Americans with STEM degrees are not employed in STEM jobs. There is no shortage of American workers with STEM experience just a shortage of jobs at a decent salary. America will do just fine without the H1-B program.

        • Ofer Imanuel

          I was an H1B holder for many years, and so was my wife – STEM both.
          H1B holders can switch companies in the first 5 years of their stay in the U.S, and often do it. I did it. Google for H1B transfer.
          Since the visa costs money, and since hiring someone on H1B for the first time is a hassle (you have to apply once a year, and can start work 6 months later), companies are reluctant to do it, unless the market is very strong, or the price very cheap. Mostly the former, because you are limited by “prevailing wages” on how much you can underpay. Besides, people will jump ship (that is, transfer) if they feel underpaid.
          The issues about serious underpayment is not with H1B, but rather with E1 or L1, where you can’t transfer, or a 3 month business visa, where you bring, say, an Indian employee for a specific job and pay him Indian wages.

          Not to say that H1B does not have its disadvantages compared to American employees. If an employer applies for green card, and the employee leaves, the green card process is reset, creating the “indentured” behavior you mentioned (employee does not want to lose its spot in the green card process). So people may switch a job or two within the first 5 years, to increase their salary, and then settle for a green card wait. Do you want to resolve that? Push for faster green card turnover for qualified candidates. These people are not welfare recipients, but rather tax payers.

          There is NEVER enough good people (and I talk as someone who interviews and hires).

          • John Dowd

            I still see no need for H1-B visas while we have a surplus of American STEM workers. There have been too many abuses of this program to justify its continuation. For instance Ann Coulter in her latest book “Adios America” mentions the importation of “High Tech” concubines under the H1-B program by Lakireddy Bali Reddy using the cover of the H1-B visa. (There may be a shortage of American concubines but this is ridiculous abuse of the program). This situation was only discovered by the accidental death of two of the three poor unfortunate women in a poorly vented building owned by Reddy. Lakireddy Bali Reddy was and is a prominent businessman in both the U.S. and India yet he completely evaded an legal safeguards for workers under the H1-B visa program. Taking this into account I am not inclined to trust that the so-called safeguards of the H1-B visa program with regard to “prevailing wages” are enforceable.

          • Ofer Imanuel

            I think you are referring to the story here: http://articles.latimes.com/print/2001/nov/25/magazine/tm-7947
            If I get the story right, the victims (and the main fraud) are the fictive dependents of a visa holder. Unclear what kind of visa. As someone who knows many H1B holders, past and present, I see it as an aberration, not the crux of an argument about H1B.
            As for a surplus of American STEM workers, I do not see it in software engineers, mathematicians or data scientists. Probably some in chemistry. Unfortunately, the different STEM disciplines are not interchangeable. In any case, my wife (a chemist) tells me that pharma companies are much less willing to hires H1B transfers, and not willing to hire new H1Bs at all.
            You take away these required H1B guys and you force large companies to outsource even more IT jobs than they want to. Then the jobs will not go to future Americans, but to (current and future) Chinese and Indians, and the taxes as well.

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