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NYT Discovers Voter Fraud

After years of claiming that it doesn’t exist, the New York Times has found evidence of voter fraud: a political machine organizing unqualified voters to swing an election in Alabama. Of course there are some twists:

The turmoil began some weeks earlier. It raised the specter of the Machine, a secret society representing a league of select and almost exclusively white fraternities and sororities, which has been around for a century or more. Once a breeding ground for state political leaders, the Machine (it has long been known by that nickname) today maintains a solid hold on student government through an effective, and critics say coercive, brand of old-fashioned organization politics.

But the Machine’s apparent involvement in an August school board election, a rare appearance in municipal politics, has prompted a lawsuit, accusations of voter fraud and an outcry that in many ways primed the campus for the larger storm over inclusion and tradition that is now taking place.

The race for the Tuscaloosa City Board of Education was already atypical. Business interests had announced a desire to remake the board, saying the rate of progress had been insufficient in a system of 10,000 students, most of them low-income. Fueled by business-financed political action committees, the challengers outraised the incumbents 10 to 1, reporting by far the most money raised in a Tuscaloosa school board race. Most of the challengers nonetheless lost.

In District 4, however, the challenger was Cason Kirby, a 26-year-old former student government president one year out of law school.

“I really decided it was someplace I could make a difference,” Mr. Kirby said in an interview. He acknowledged that he had never been to a school board meeting before his campaign, but said he had growing concerns about the state of the city’s schools and was encouraged by civic and business leaders to run.

He also had a natural base of support. “The limos and party bus are running constantly,” read one of numerous similar e-mails circulated around Machine-affiliated sororities on Election Day. Free drinks were promised at local bars for those wearing “I Voted” stickers. Sorority leaders were careful to emphasize that they were not endorsing a particular candidate but encouraged members to wear Cason Kirby T-shirts to the polls.

The numbers bear out their influence. Of the 369 voters registered in the district this year, 269 registered during one week in mid-August, and 94 percent of those newly registered voters were 21 or younger. Mr. Kirby won the race by 416 to 329 votes.

His opponent, Kelly Horwitz, filed suit this month, claiming that many of the voters were ineligible, including 11 unrelated people who listed the same residence — a small, single-family house near the football stadium.

The truth that the MSM all too often finds it convenient to forget is that widespread voter fraud has been endemic throughout American history. It is such an obvious, cheap and effective method of gaining and holding control over lucrative government jobs that the history of much of urban america was built on great political machines for whom voter fraud was a perfectly normal and ordinary way of doing business.

Yet now, even as many us municipalities are run by corrupt and incompetent one party machines, we are solemnly told that vote fraud has disappeared. Except, of course, when those loathsome white males, the dirty dogs behind everything that is wrong with America, are involved.

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  • USNK2

    Will the NYT ever do a story about same day voter registration, requiring only a ‘valid’ telephone bill to prove address, at polling sites in The Bronx? First time I ever saw that was on primary day, Sept 10, 2013. A friend saw same at a different Bronx poll site.
    And then there is the loss of the secret ballot with the optical scanning machines to be used in the general election. Who decided that the poll worker has to inspect your ballot before the poll worker feeds it into the scanner, which is programmed to never prove your vote was actually scanned correctly?
    No, the NYT can not be bothered to investigate voter fraud in NYC, but, a schoool board election in Tuscaloosa, Alabama merits an INVESTIGATION?????

  • bpuharic

    Much ado about nothing.

    First, there’s a difference between voter fraud and voter ID fraud. “Other than than, Mrs Lincoln, how was the play”?

    Voter ID is a very inefficient way to steal an election. Getting hundreds, if not thousands of people to participate in a conspiracy is a recipe for disaster. We can’t even get CIA agents and navy cryptographers to keep secrets, let alone a bunch of folks walking into voting booths

    Stealing elections is done much more easily, as this story itself shows, when officials game the system by vote counting fraud. Why risk letting thousands of people in on a theft when you can just cheat the count?

    WRM ignores the fact that people HAVE looked for voter ID fraud effects on elections. Almost NONE has been found. Here in PA we found none. In TX, they studied 10 years of elections at both local and national elections..and found 50. In 10 years.

    But what HAS been effective is the attempt of white, conservative politicians to throw so many roadblocks in the paths of the poor, especially poor blacks, that this is another form of poll tax.

    So the BEST example WRM has come up with after YEARS of looking at this problem is an Alabama school board election?

    Really? That’s it?

    Wonder how Mrs Lincoln like the play.

    • leftistsbscum

      Typical leftist troll response…

      “Ignore the crimes we are committing (“Voter ID Fraud”) because it isn’t such a big deal anyway. We’re only breaking the law a little bit!”

      Then in typical troll fashion, cite some BS statistics with ZERO links or verified proof to back them up.

      One thing leftists can never explain to me is why one must show ID to cash a check, receive govt benefits, purchase alcohol, or a myriad other ordinary and normal activities and business tranasactions, BUT it is perfectly okay to just walk up to the voting booth without proving you are who you say you are.

      Nice try, Skippy. All of us, including you, know the reason leftists hate Voter ID is because it makes it easier for non-citizens to cast votes, the vast majority of which go to the political party handing out the most free goodies. Heaven forbid, a citizen should have to put forth a little effort to obtain a free State-issued ID card. Why, that would be an undue burden!

      What a crock…

      • bpuharic

        Proof of fraud?


        And because there’s NO evidence, let’s do what conservatives TRIED to do and failed to in the 60’s…institute a poll tax!

        Cashing a check is a constitutional right? Nope. Purchase alcohol? Nope. A myriad of other activities? Nope

        But let’s take a non existent crime and invent a solution that, oh, by the by, hits the dark folks, just like conservatives advocated in the 50’s and 60’s (see William F Buckley’s famous National Review article)….and call it crime prevention!

        • Brew Master

          Apply your thinking to gun purchases and see where your hypocracy lies.

          • bpuharic

            The 2nd amendment has the power to kill people.

            that fact is lost on the right wing.

            In addition, NO advanced free country has this idiotic provision in law.

            Stupidity is part of the definition of conservative

          • Tom

            And bad government doesn’t have the power to kill people?

          • bpuharic

            Let’s get rid of both of them

            Voter ID fraud has NO effect on election fraud at all. None.

          • Bill Dalasio

            Try Googling Marks v. Stinson.

          • bpuharic

            I wonder when conservatives lost the ability to read

            This case involves a situation where a candidate is accused of TRICKING voters into voting for him


            So the MORE you try to prove your case, the more you prove MY CASE

            Thanks. I already knew that.

          • Joe Eagar

            No country? Do you have any official statistics for that? I find it hard to believe, given how nativist many European countries are about this sort of thing.

          • bpuharic

            It’s not a matter of ‘statistics’. It’s a matter of law. Only Honduras and Mexico have a similar ‘right’ to keep and bear arms. And they’re 3rd world countries.

        • Joe Eagar

          “Hits the dark folks”. . .like, oh, environmentalist land use restrictions in blue states, that makes housing unaffordable?

          I’m not sure why liberals think they have so much credibility where race is concerned. Conservatives don’t abuse the power of government to keep “the dark people” out of “our neighborhoods”; white liberals do.

          • bpuharic

            We have credibility because we, helped blacks win their freedom while conservatives opposed it.

            Conservatives set up organizations like the Mississippi Sovereignty Commission to deny blacks equal rights, wrote Jim Crow laws, and preached ‘separate but equal’ which never is

            Go figure. Which is why blacks vote for liberal candidates. Which helped Obama win 2 elections

          • Joe Eagar

            Oh really. I suppose this is another outgrowth of the Southern obsession with spreading the blame.

            I suppose it’s news to you that Jim Crow laws were limited to the south.

            By the way, by many measures blacks are worse off after liberals “gave them their freedom” then they were before. Why is that, I wonder?

            Might it be that liberals took advantage of their newfound credibility?

          • bpuharic

            Yes, I know Crow laws were only in conservative areas. The south has always been conservative.

            And by the way, by many measures, blacks are worse off after conservatives denied them their freedom. Might it be that consevatives don’t believe in freedom?

            And liberals did not win blacks their freedom. Blacks did. That’s another typical error of conservatives.

          • Joe Eagar

            I didn’t say liberals won blacks their freedom—you did.

            Also, there were conservative parts of the country that weren’t anti-black (their paranoia was directed at communists).

            Saying that “blacks are worse off after conservatives denied them their freedom” is complete nonsense, and you know it. Things started getting worse for blacks *after* the 60s.

            Blacks are not helpless, mentally retarded children, who will always abuse their kids because their ancestors were enslaved a hundred and fifty years ago.

            They are victims of intentional social neglect, enforced by clever manipulation of racial tensions by liberals.

          • Fred

            Yes, bpuharic is not only too lazy to read what anybody else writes, he’s too lazy to read what _he_ writes.

          • bpuharic

            As Edith Keeler said in “Star Trek”, a lie is a terrible way to say hello

            What I said was liberals HELPED blacks win their freedom. Any other lies you want to spout or is lying just assumed, being conservative?

            And I agree there were moderate conservatives. There aren’t today, of course. The American conservative movement has gone off the tracks and is the most extreme it’s been in 60 years. Even its own history is seen as socialist…e.g. the individual mandate of the Heritage Foundation, or Ronald Reagan’s 11 tax increases.

            And saying blacks are worse off after winning their freedom, with the help of liberals. is complete nonsense.

            You’re saying things were BETTER for blacks when they were being lynched and were denied access to medical care, education etc?

            Typical right wing view of freedom.

            The right created Jim Crow then complained when blacks tried to win their freedom, calling it ‘exacerbating racial tensions’.

            Spoken like a white redneck

          • Joe Eagar

            “You’re saying things were BETTER for blacks when they were being lynched and were denied access to medical care, education etc?”

            I am, yes. The data is pretty clear. The black family collapsed in the late 60s, which spawned generations of misery, poverty, and crime in black communities.

            Who prevented the federal government from stepping in and fixing this mess? White liberals, especially white feminists.

          • Joe Eagar

            Of course, I’m only a nasty, “white redneck.” By the way, did you know that many of the things that screwed blacks over also screwed Irish people over?

            I have a rather lot of white relatives who are mired in the same generational poverty cycle that blacks are.

            I’ve been thinking a lot lately about the similarities of Irish and black males. We share similar stereotypes and biases.
            White liberals tell me that opposing their dehumanizing poverty programs is racist. I rather think it’s the other way around.

          • Joe Eagar

            It’s you people who insist on racializing everything. Conservatives didn’t create the inequality in California or New York, nor did they destroy those state’s education systems. In fact, minorities are better educated in conservative states then in liberal ones.

            You want to talk about what we did three generations ago? What about what you people are doing right now, today?

          • bpuharic

            It’s you people who insist on racializing everything. When Obama was running for president the birther movement hated the idea of a black president so much they accused him of being a foreigner…as many conservatives do today.

            In fact, minorities are better educated in liberal states than they are in conservative ones. The excuse, ironically enough, that conservatives give is PRECISELY the large minority population

            State with worst education? Places like MS, OK, LA, etc. States with highest infant mortality? See above

            What are you people today TODAY, right NOW? Answer: gutting the middle class. We’re seeing the greatest degree of inequality in over 3 decades and the right wing is making it far worse than it was in the mid 50’s.

            Thanks guys

          • Joe Eagar

            And now we get into class politics. By the way, you forgot to mention Texas in your little tally. It’s 2nd in the country where minority education is concerned.

          • bpuharic

            And TX is 26th in the nation in education and ranks


            in percentage of jobs that pay minimum wage.

            When it’s not debating creationism in its science texts, that is

          • Joe Eagar
          • bpuharic

            Really?…Hmm…US News says otherwise. CA has highest percentage of top performing high schools in the country.

            TX is 12th.


            Yeah those teachers unions suck, huh?

          • Joe Eagar

            It also has the most underperforming ones. Besides, that’s easily explained by California’s extreme inequality: more rich people, who invest in their schools, leads to better stats.

            That’s an explanation you liberals should understand 🙂

          • bpuharic

            28% of CA high schools are high performing. That’s not ‘underperforming.

          • Joe Eagar

            That doesn’t mean anything if the other 72% are failing, does it?

            How many poor people do you think has access to those schools, hm?

          • bpuharic

            Where does it say the others are ‘failing’?

            Oh. It doesn’t. And I guess your reference says that TX doesn’t educate anyone outside of the 8th grade

          • Joe Eagar

            Have you ever been to California? I grew up there, you know.

          • bpuharic

            I lived in San Jose for 6 months working on site at Applied Materials

            I also lived in Dallas for 2 years working at TI.

            So I have a bit of experience, yes.

          • Joe Eagar

            I’m surprised. I lived in San Jose when I was little; my parents were too scared to even send us to public school, they had to homeschool us. For which they were harassed by the state teacher union.

          • Joe Eagar

            I refer you again to

            which has contradictory data. Frankly, California’s education system is so bad that many people leave the state because of it, and I’m more inclined to believe Taylor’s numbers than yours.

          • bpuharic

            Sure you’re willing to believe a story that the right would push. That’s what you guys do.

            And your data is ONLY for the 8th grade. MY data is for ALL high schools

          • Joe Eagar

            It must be nice to categorize every inconvenient fact as a “right-wing lie.” It absolves you of any blame, or any responsibility to fix the mess liberals have made.

          • bpuharic

            Hey what can I say. You guys are so extreme today that virtually everything you believe is a lie. From your simplistic ‘free market’ views to the supply side cult beliefs, to the worship of Ayn Rand, to the denial that inequality exists, etc.

            Nothing you guys believe is empirically true.

          • Joe Eagar

            I don’t worship Ayn Rand, nor do I believe that inequality doesn’t exist (I do think the entire top 20% of the income distribution is the problem though, not just the top 1%). I don’t have simplistic free market views, either.

            For that matter, I don’t believe all Democrats are evil liberals (the Dem neoliberal movement is really quite good). But I do believe that liberals are evil 😛

          • bpuharic

            Paul Ryan certainly does and he’s a bit more important than you are. She’s quite the rage on the right.

          • Joe Eagar

            I take it you’ve never actually read any of Ryan’s actual policy proposals. Otherwise you would never say that.

            The man once proposed a VAT, which would fund a healthcare system not unlike ObamaCare (though without all the ridiculous regulations).

          • bpuharic

            You mean the guy who said he requires everyone in his office to read her books?

            And I read his proposals on his website, especially elimination of capital gains taxes. So the middle class takes it in the shorts


            And funding healthcare would be done by tax refunds which wouldn’t help the poor at all. Nor would they cover the real costs of premiums.

            And his tax rates would RAISE taxes on the producer class…the middle class…

          • Joe Eagar

            Erm. . .you do realize that ObamaCare uses tax refunds, right?

            Capital gains tax policy is something of a mystery to me; it’s something of an elite position (by both Republican and Democratic economists) that the net benefits outweigh the costs. Whether that is true I don’t know, but I certainly wish our politicians wouldn’t buy into it and propose it as public policy (it’s politically toxic).

          • bpuharic

            Er…actually it DOESN’T. The PENALTY for not getting healthcare is taken from the income tax refund. No refund, no penalty.

            Piketty and Saez published a report earlier this year showing that capital gains taxes as high as 80% have NO effect on GDP growth at all. Rich people still invest and they still get rich. The GOP has a MORAL commitment to lower taxes for the rich which is based on political theology about ‘makers, rather than empirical economics

          • Joe Eagar

            Well. We have a moral commitment to low taxation on private producers. But many of the wealthy have stopped being “private” (they make profit by abusing government power).

            That’s why the populist libertarian right is doing so well right now.

          • bpuharic

            There’s no reason why a private producer should have less of a tax burden than a middle class worker. Nor is there any reason why someone who doesn’t grow the economy, like a Mitt Romney type LBO king, should ALSO get lower tax rates via the carried interest tax rates. That’s a disincentive for middle class people to work hard.

            The rich get social benefits by living in a country where they don’t have to pay for private security guards, have a well educated workforce, etc. America is not a 3rd world country BECAUSE of its middle class NOT because of its rich

            Yet GOP policy is EXCLUSIVELY targeted towards the 1%. Lower tax rates, tax expenditures and subsidies, etc are all based on supply side myths with NO policies targeted at the middle class.

            The GOP even opposed moderate benefits for the middle class like the FMLA which are profamily and help to balance age demographics

          • Joe Eagar

            No policies for the middle class? Trillions of middle-class tax cuts weren’t enough? The Child Tax Credit? The EITC (which we invented)?

            No Child Left Behind (which may be controversial, but no one doubts it’s intentions)? Medicare Part D?

            Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

          • bpuharic

            Tax cuts for the middle class were incidental since the GOP led the charge to reinstate the increase in payroll taxes which gave middle class taxpayers a 2% increase this year. Most tax cuts the GOP has come up with, starting with Reagan, accrued to the 1% which is one reason inequality has skyrocketed over the last 30 years.

            Medicare Part D was never paid for and blew a big hole in the budget. Funny how the GOP, fanatical about deficits, forgot to pay for one of the biggest welfare programs targeted not at the poor, but its base…elderly middle class voters

          • Joe Eagar

            Don’t be absurd. Most of the cost of our tax cuts was the middle brackets; liberals like to say our cuts disproportionately *benefitted* the wealthy, but the truth is that most of the money went to the middle class (the middle class is simply so much bigger that the benefits weren’t the same).

          • Joe Eagar

            And we didn’t lead the charge to end the payroll tax cut. Obama could have kept that if he wanted.

          • bpuharic

            Incorrect. The GOP insisted it be part of the deal. The GOP thinks cutting taxes for the rich is good…supply side economics…but they think social security needs to be paid for as we go along. Contradiction? Yep.

          • bpuharic

            I always appreciate the depth to which conservatives believe their own myths, no matter what the evidence



            Most money in GOP tax cuts goes to the wealthy and it does not produce jobs

            It’s just welfare for the rich. Which is what contemporary conservatism is all about

          • Joe Eagar

            Those articles don’t contradict my point, though. I said that the wealthy disproportionately benefited, and they did.

            But the middle class tax cuts *cost* more. It’s because the middle class is so much bigger.

          • Joe Eagar

            It’s simple math.

          • Joe Eagar

            Frankly, you shouldn’t believe your own side’s myths. The tax code is slightly less progressive (as measured by Treasury) than it was in 1979, but only slightly. Bush wasn’t able to reverse all of Clinton’s tax hikes.

          • bpuharic

            The FEDERAL tax code is slightly progressive except at the very top where it’s very REGRESSIVE since capital gains tax rates are lower than working people pay.

            Thanks to the GOP and conservative supply side mythology

          • Joe Eagar

            The share of the tax burden paid for by the wealthy is only slightly lower than it was in 1979, though.

          • bpuharic

            Their tax burden is LOWER while their income has tripled.

            Golly. Almost like tax policy favors the rich.

          • bpuharic

            The tax code at the FEDERAL level is slightly progressive except at the very top where it’s regressive. The weatlhiest pay capital gains tax rates, which is a tax expenditure since their rates are lower than the makers in the middle class

            The GOP, caught up in supply side mythology, has sought to ELIMINATE any taxes on capital gains, sticking the middle class with the bill

          • Joe Eagar

            We wouldn’t “stick the middle class with the bill.” If the economists (and again, there are liberal economist who believe this) are right, the middle class would have less of a burden.

            I know, it’s hard to believe, and frankly, I don’t. I’m a strong believer in Milton Friedman’s admonition that there is no such thing as a free lunch.

            Frankly, this isn’t a partisan problem. Some of my side’s economists believe this, and so do some of yours.

            And they are genuine about it. They aren’t looking to redistribute wealth upward. They’re just a little overzealous, is all.

          • bpuharic

            Someone has to pay the bills. If the taxes of the rich are eliminated as Ron Paul proposes, then the middle class pays them all. Which is exactly what conservatives think we should do.

            In the last 30 years middle class incomes have stagnated while the 1% have tripled theirs. Due in large part to conservative tax policies.

          • Joe Eagar

            I agree that the benefits of low capital gains rates haven’t been proved. But I don’t think it’s been proved that hiking them to 80% wouldn’t damage the economy, either. I don’t have a high opinion of economic research when it comes to politically sensitive topics.

            Myself, I think we should simply count investment income as normal income, adjusted for inflation (to avoid penalizing long-term investment). I don’t know how technically feasible that is, though.

          • Joe Eagar

            Also, while it’s possible he would raise the tax burden of the *upper* middle class, he wouldn’t do anything to anyone else.

            The analysis that said otherwise was based in the idea that because Ryan didn’t specify specific tax reform proposals (which is impossible, since predicting which reform measures can pass politically cannot be known ahead of the final tax reform negotiations), we should assume that he didn’t intend to do any tax reform at all. Or at least, “we can’t grade ambiguity.”

          • Joe Eagar

            And by the way, even if Texas has more minimum wage jobs, the cost of living is so much lower that the real standard of living is higher than in states like California.

          • bpuharic

            No one cares about your Reader’s Digest stories. You white racists are always here to tell us that the dark folks had it pretty good when you were stringin’ ’em up and it’s their own fault they’re always pregnant today

          • Joe Eagar

            You didn’t read my comment, did you? A lot of my (white) relatives are in exactly the same situation blacks are today; so no, it’s “not their own fault they’re always pregnant” today.

            It’s your fault, bpuharic. People like you are the problem, not the solution.

          • bpuharic

            People like you, who think anecdotes are public policy, and believe right wing myths, are part of the problem.

          • Joe Eagar

            My family lived those myths. Don’t tell me that what they suffered are “right wing lies.” That’s evil.

          • bpuharic

            My family did too. That’s why I know they’re lies.

          • Joe Eagar

            That’s a contradictory statement.

          • bpuharic

            The data is pretty clear? Death is better than what blacks have today?

            That’s the most eloquent argument for racism I’ve seen a conservative make

            Well done!

          • Joe Eagar

            It’s not an argument for racism, it’s an argument that liberal policies have destroyed blacks. This is exactly what I’m talking about; you’re deflecting my criticisms by invoking racism.

            Too bad for you, those same policies destroyed my white relatives. I speak from experience, not bias.

          • bpuharic

            Sure it’s an argument for racism. You conservatives did everything you could to eliminate any ability of blacks to compete then complain they’re not competing. You gave them generations of hate, substandard schools, lack of healthcare, then are surprised when blacks struggle.

            You prefer to blame blacks rather than your own sordid and sorry history of oppression which is a matter of historical record.

            Too bad for you right wing policies destroyed my hometown of Pittsburgh and the steelworkers who lived there.

          • Joe Eagar

            And you liberals (with your teacher unions) are giving blacks terrible educations today.

            You keep saying I’m blaming blacks, yet I’m not. I’m blaming you. After all, if I blamed blacks for their problems, I’d have to blame my own extended family too, wouldn’t I?

          • bpuharic

            State with the highest rate of education? MA.

            State with lowest? MS

            State with no unions? MS

            There goes another right wing argument

          • Joe Eagar

            Also, I find it somewhat odd that you think conservatism is “more extreme than it’s been in 60 years.” If you believe that conservatism stood for Jim Crow a mere fifty years ago, how can the modern right be more extreme than it was ten years prior to that?

          • bpuharic

            Hmmm even racists were more moderate than today’s right wing



            THAT is how radical right wing extremism is destroying this country.

          • Joe Eagar

            There’s nothing more extreme than legalized racism, is there? And last I checked, no one in Congress is pushing that.

          • bpuharic

            Yeah voter ID bills have nothing to do with racism…nah…just because a bunch of conservative white guys are pushing it…

          • Joe Eagar

            You really have internalized that conservatives only do racist things, haven’t you?

          • bpuharic

            No. I believe that because

            that’s what conservatives TOLD us they wanted to do.

            I simply take them at their word

          • Joe Eagar


          • Joe Eagar

            And don’t say “forty years ago.” I’m only 26, you know.

          • bpuharic

            That’s no excuse for being right wing

          • Joe Eagar

            I’m about as right wing as Bill Clinton is left wing. Which is to say, not very.

          • bpuharic

            No one knows what that means. Today’s right wing is so extreme that Ronald Reagan would be a red

          • Joe Eagar

            If you exclude health care politics (which really is pure politics, not ideological), the modern right is actually pretty moderate. Certainly more so than in 2004.

          • bpuharic

            I don’t see any support for govt regulation of the banking system from the right; even less support than there is from the Dems

            Gay rights? The right hates ’em. Scalia thinks it’s OK to jail them.

            Food stamps? The GOP voted to eliminate them while supporting billions in welfare for rich farmers.

            etc etc

          • Joe Eagar

            Then you haven’t been paying attention. There are conservatives who want to break up the big banks. Support for gay rights is becoming near-universal among conservative elites (there’s been a revival of libertarian conservatism).

            And food stamps does need reform (as does farm subsidies, but that’s a bipartisan problem). SNAP is being used as a quasi long term unemployment insurance program, which is not good for society (it encourages unethical behavior, since people have to trade in SNAP benefits for cash on a black market).

          • bpuharic

            Nor have you been paying attention. The GOP fought the provision of Dodd Frand that established a board to protect consumers. The GOP fought ANY regulations to break up the banks. In fact, they could do this TODAY. They have a majority in Congress and could move a bill along to do with with no problem at all.

            I agree there has been movement among conservatives on gay rights but there’s NO support for it at the national campaign level and it’s still opposed by the party elite.

            SNAP needs reform? Funny how they forgot to do that when they voted for billions in pork for billionaires but stuck it to the poor in the last farm bill.

            And what about the moral hazard of billions in subsidies for the 5 biggest banks that get an 85 BILLION Dollar advantage in lower borrowing rates since the govt HAS to bail them out if they get in trouble?

            Or the GOP’s insistence that capital gains taxes be lowered below working people’s taxes? There’s NO argument to support that except greed for the rich

          • Joe Eagar

            Conservative support for breaking up the big banks peaked after Dodd-Frank, I’ll admit.

            GOP national elites are precisely the people who have most changed on gay rights, by the way.

            I did say that farm subsidies needed reform, didn’t I? And no one *supports* our Too Big To Fail policy.

            Finally, there are legitimate arguments for lowering the capital gains rate below the tax rate on labor. I don’t buy into them (it seems like too much of a free lunch, to me), but many people (including quite a few Democrats) do. It’s not a partisan political issue; the low-capital-gains-rate faction stretches across both our parties.

          • bpuharic

            Gee why are conservatives so ignorant of their own history

            Williarm F Buckley, the FOUNDER of modern conservatism, ardently defended racism in “National review” as did James J Kilpatrick, Murray Rothbard and other conservatives

          • Joe Eagar

            Thus why I said “not forty years ago.”

          • bpuharic

            Yeah there’s no consequence to racist attitudes and laws on today’s blacks because of the way their parents were treated.

            The right wants a free pass on its sordid history

          • Joe Eagar

            And by the way, liberals aren’t pure themselves. President Wilson segregated the federal civil service, and for many decades white liberals were quite racist.

          • bpuharic

            Wilson, for 100 years ago, was not a racist. He never defended the idea blacks were inferior.

            The GOP at that time expelled its black members and told southern conservative democrats that they had a free hand in ‘states rights’…as the GOP continued to do for the next 50 years.

          • Joe Eagar

            Wilson still segregated the civil service.

          • Mr. Fever Head

            Wow dude. Stop the weed. Seriously.

        • Mr. Fever Head

          Try to buy a gun at Walmart without an ID. You’re all in for that with the second amendment …right? Or maybe you’re just a troll making a stupid troll argument.

          • bpuharic

            The right wing confuses ‘troll’ with ‘truth’.

            The 2nd should be repealed

          • Ritchie The Riveter

            And you confuse “thought” with parrotage … wanna cracker?

    • Joe Eagar

      Didn’t poor, minority voting increase in voter ID districts, though? Democrats used the issue to motivate their base, and it worked. Where’s the evidence that voter ID lowers turnout?

      • bpuharic

        Yep people used the issue to build the base. Imagine that.

        And the evidence that it lowers turnout is that the GOP is the only party pushing it

        Imagine that.

    • Mr. Fever Head

      So as you say – voter ID fraud is small and voter ID laws have constantly been pushed by white conservative politicians. How very unusual. Sort of like how we don’t have a lot of building collapses and yet politicians still want building codes.

      I think the proper response to your argument is: you’re welcome.

      • bpuharic

        Conservatism: An evidence free zone.

        The consequences of a building collapse? Severe

        Consequences of poll taxes?

        Blacks don’t vote. Gee. Imagine that. Conservatives after half a century are still pushing poll taxes

        You’re welcome? Only at a klan meeting

        • tdperk

          If there was any poll tax involved, you’d have a point.

          • bpuharic

            Haven’t done much study on this have you? No surprise. The right wing loves taxes and govt regulation as long as they’re paid for by the poor or middle class

    • tdperk

      Given the the Dem machine precincts in Philly who had not even one erroneous vote of thousands cast for Romney, your remarks are ironic at best.

      • bpuharic

        Hmmm…ironic? Since when is truth ironic?

        Oh…when the right wing doesn’t like it. Any proof of voter ID fraud?

        Nope. But let’s still cut down on the dark people who vote

        That’s the right wing way

  • DirtyJobsGuy

    Most of our current election law was originally pushed by the Good Government movement in response to corrupt big city political machines (both Republican and Democrat). Progressives of the time joined in on this. Perhaps the current Progressives have grown to depend too much on the big city machines themselves.

  • mom2ads

    Oh please… I was a sorority girl at Bama, and yeah, I got told who to vote for… EVERYONE of us voted for who we wanted to vote… if I liked the person the ‘machine’ backed, i voted for them. If I liked another candidate, I voted for that person. The machine has far less power than they say. It was an open secret that you just smiled at the one telling you who to vote for and nod and and then vote for the person you wanted, regardless.

    • bpuharic

      You’re not playing well with others! Part of the narrative is that this election for Alabama school board will bring down democracy in the US because it shows voter ID fraud.

      Get with the program!

      • Joe Eagar

        That’s a remarkably uninformed view. WRM wasn’t saying that the sorority was coercing people to vote, but that they had brought outsiders into the district to throw the numbers.

        • Fred

          Of course, but b. is a remarkably uninformed person. Really, if we all ignore him, maybe he will go away.

      • mom2ads

        Sorry. It is what it is. The Dems have cornered the market on voter fraud…not the other way ’round.

  • deucegeary

    11 college students in one house? Hardly suspect.

    • Loader2000

      Yeah, I lived in a house with 10 Case Western dental students at one point.

  • Boritz

    Not only is there more than one way to win an election. There is more than one way to steal an election.

  • Corlyss

    “The truth that the MSM all too often finds it convenient to forget is that widespread voter fraud has been endemic throughout American history.”
    And if there’s one thing you can count on, as surely as you can count on the earth revolving around the sun, it is that the NYT will NEVER find voter fraud in Democrats anywhere and especially not in NY or NYC.

    • bpuharic

      Funny Fox news hasn’t either.

      Almost as if it doesn’t exist…strange…

      • dwpittelli

        See “Officials Plead Guilty in New York Voter Fraud Case: A total of four Democratic officials and political operatives have now pleaded guilty to voter fraud-related felony charges in an alleged scheme to steal a New York election.

        The latest guilty pleas expose the ease with which political insiders can apparently manipulate the electoral system and throw an election their way, by the forging of signatures of unsuspecting voters that are then cast as real votes.”

        Read more:

        • bpuharic

          Which, of course, has nothing to do with people showing up at the polls saying they are who they aren’t

          Election officials forged signatures.

          As I said, election official fraud is much more efficient than voter ID fraud.

          But you guys want to disenfranchise blacks and the poor. YOUR OWN REFERENCE proves that. If it DIDN’T these guys wouldnt be going to jail for forging signatures

          Do you READ your OWN REFERENCES??

          • dwpittelli

            1) I answered your false claim. Now you move your goalposts.
            2) It is a lot easier for election officials to engage in fraud when the the rolls are sloppy, filled with the deceased and duplicates / people who have moved, and when absentee balloting and multi-day voting and same-day registration exist.

          • bpuharic

            Ah. So you changed the game and now want to accuse me of moving the goalposts?

            Where’s your proof that voter ID fraud was involved? There is none

            Try to stay on topic. Handwaving isn’t an argument.

          • Some Guy

            One person said: “it is that the NYT will NEVER find voter fraud in Democrats anywhere and especially not in NY or NYC.”

            Then you said: Funny Fox news hasn’t either.

            Then dwpitt provided a link showing voter fraud in NY, from fox news.

            No where was any claim of ID fraud made in this comment column.

            He answered your question, now you’re changing the question.

          • bpuharic

            Let me type this slowly so you can understand

            He found

            election fraud. NOT voter ID fraud

            I know, it’s hard for right wingers to hold more than one idea…even one idea…in their pretty little heads..

            but try. If you try REALLY hard and make a wish, it will come true, for you!

          • Joe Eagar

            You’re using voter ID fraud as a high school debate tactic. Yet, I would be highly surprised if you yourself actually supported going after the “real” forms of fraud you claim to believe in.

            Come back when you have some credibility. And when your side isn’t pitting poor whites and poor Hispanics against each other. Reagan’s Southern Strategy never went as far as the Democrats are going today.

          • bpuharic

   you get to define which poor and which blacks are subject to a new poll tax imposed by conservatives in govt….because you call their constitutional rights a ‘debating tactic’.

            Interesting. As always, it betrays a lack of historical perspective.

            And it’s conservatives with their ‘welfare queen’ language that pits poor whites against blacks and Hispanics. They did it when Strom Thurmond was in congress, and when Reagan was pres. They’re doing it today.

          • Joe Eagar

            By the way, whenever someone trys to purge the voter rolls of fraudulent names, you people use exactly the same racialist arguments you’re using now.

            If you’re going to accuse us of racism whatever we do, there’s no point in us listening to you at all.

          • bpuharic

            Uh, no we don’t. In fact liberals support clearing the rolls precisely BECAUSE politicians use the names as foils in their re election campaigns.

            And it’s a new poll tax. Conservatives such as WF Buckley were in favor of it in the 50’s and it’s ONLY conservatives pushing it today.

          • Joe Eagar

            You seem very good at telling us what our own motives are.

            I’m the same way, of course. This sick little race war you people have started between our base and Hispanics? That’s because you’re racist.

            Welfare programs that not even Sweden would find humane, that led to generations of poverty and social exclusion? Among a dozen of my own cousins and aunts?

            Racial segregation. It kept blacks and Irish people from competing with good, up-standing white Anglo-Saxons.

            You make me sick.

          • bpuharic

            Hmmm…maybe illegals should ‘self deport’..said Romney. Conservatives are in favor of letting businesses HIRE illegals and paying them less than Americans get…but don’t want a pathway to citizenship THEN you accuse liberals of discriminating against Hispanics? Funny that Hispanics don’t see it that way. 90% of Romney’s voters were white.

            And welfare? Please. You guys give BILLIONS to the rich under ‘supply side’ theology…BILLIONS in farm subsidies, tax expenditures, THEN complain about the POOR and the MIDDLE CLASS getting ANY benefits at all.

            Your disgusting 100 year war against blacks is now being carried out against Hispanics

            Which is why neither votes conservative.

  • teapartydoc

    Democrats do nothing but lie.

  • Rick Caird

    “Except, of course, when those loathsome white males, the dirty dogs behind everything that is wrong with America, are involved.”

    Of course. Blacks can’t be racist and Democrats cannot commit vote fraud. It is all in the definitions. /sarc

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